Cleaner is refusing to soldier

[biscuitbrown]

I've been lucky enough to have a cleaner help out once a week since my first DD was born, we pay her well and we've always been super flexible, she works the day that suits her (rather than a Monday or Friday which I'd actually like). I've always thought we we had a friendship based on mutual respect and flexibility. She's not English and I've gladly helped her with insurance claims/mobile provider issues / school issues /hospital appointments etc. We give her a generous bonus at Christmas, we look after her. I've just gone back to work 3 days a week (long hours) and we've taken the huge step of getting an au pair, which is the first time we've had any childcare. Our au pair is brilliant - capable, trustworthy, hardworking, helpful, she cooks when I'm working, keeps their rooms tidy, washes their clothes, babysits etc. We found her through an agency and they explained how it is a cultural exchange, gave us guidance on what you can and cannot expect an au pair to do.

Anyway to cut to the chase, we pay our cleaner well to clean the whole house. But now we have the au pair she outright refuses to clean her room. I am only asking her to vacuum and dust, not tidy or touch her things (and au pair is SO tidy). I asked her why (this was all on text) and she said the au pair is old enough to look after herself. She's 18. But cleaner is paid to clean all the rooms and has been doing so for years... AIBU?!

@Rosehip10 a post count of 1 commenting on an au pair situation on a thread about an au pair doesn’t constitute either ‘popping up on random threads’ or fulfil the criteria of ‘nothing to do with Brexit’.
As for your ‘idiotic’ name calling: 1, don’t engage with that; 2 , luckily my recent viva panel didn’t agree 😁

I’m slightly concerned that the au pair may be trying to get the cleaner into trouble here, is there a possibility that the au pair acts a little haughty around the cleaner and is in fact making your previously lovely cleaner feel beneath her? I know you have said that they get on, but as you also said, you have no idea if this is the truth.

I think I would ask the au pair to take care of her own room. You want both the au pair and cleaner to get on as colleagues and for that to happen you need them to both feel equal. If you insist on your cleaner cleaning the au pairs room, then you are elevating the au pairs status and risking making a valuable member of staff unhappy.

If you didn’t have a cleaner, you would be cleaning the house- yes? If you were cleaning the house, then I would be willing to bet that you wouldn’t clean the au pairs room. Therefore I think it’s unfair that you would expect your cleaner to do something which you yourself would not do.

I have carers who take care of my personal care and also do the jobs that I would do, if I myself was fit enough to do them. My carers do the jobs that I would do, so they help with my children, clean my children’s rooms, change my bed and the children’s beds, make my lunch and lunch for my kids. But they don’t do my husbands bed (or lunch) because he would normally do that - even though it’s right next to mine (two singles pushed together as I need a hospital bed). My husband agrees whole heartedly with this and on the occasion they have done his bed he thanks them and tells them they didn’t need to do that (they are here to care for me and my children- not my husband).

I see them as my equals- they support me and enable my family to function better. If they were running around after my husband they wouldn’t feel like they were equals- they would feel like employees (yes I know they are but after seven years they are very close friends too) or servants. Your cleaner has always had a good relationship with you- she is telling you that she would feel like a servant and beneath your 18 year old au pair if she cleaned her room. I would rather have two happy employees who feel like equals. Your au pair will be gone before long but I bet your cleaner will be there a lot longer!

@DarkYearForMySoul What on earth has brexit got to do with this situation? I'm voted remain too but I don't try to make everything a tenuous link to brexit in a silly attempt to convert people - you just turn people off your views and any debate.

@Rosehip10 your vote and you seeing conversion where there was none is not my business.
My pits concerned Freedon of Movement. This has been stopped. Hence any British young person wishing to travel as an au pair cannot anymore. Any European young person wishing to come here as an au pair cannot anymore. As it seems you didn’t see this link I believe this is further evidence it was a valuable point to raise as people may need to think about this and their future childcare arrangements.

I’m wondering if the au pair isn’t all seeetmess and light when you aren’t around too. If she’s as amazing as you say she is, I’d have tbought she’d just quietly clean her room and not say anything to you about it. That’s what I would have done at that age.

That said, as a cleaner myself, I wouldn’t think twice about cleaning the au pairs room, although I enjoy my job, choose to do it and don’t see myself as beneath anyone - it may be different for her. That’s not relevant though as you’re her employer and you’ve asked her to clean the entire house, so that’s what she should do. Allowing this to slide will build resentment and that’s not good for either of you.

I would talk to her face to face and give her the opportunity to say how she feels, because I have this niggling doubt your au pair may be different when you aren’t there and it would be a shame to lose a good, trustworthy cleaner if there is more to this than meets the eye.

If you didn’t have a cleaner, you would be cleaning the house- yes? If you were cleaning the house, then I would be willing to bet that you wouldn’t clean the au pairs room. Therefore I think it’s unfair that you would expect your cleaner to do something which you yourself would not do.

But that argument doesn't work because cleaning her own house AND cleaning the au pair's room are both things the OP doesn't want to do. And that neither her nor the au pair could do as well as the cleaner.

Mumsnet showcases some funny opinions about cleaners - they're almost a member of the family, they're your employee, you should pay their holidays, their pension, and it's almost a courtesy that they clean your house. I don't like mine, hate to be around when she's in, and am gladly mostly out when she does. I just pay her and tip her. And if she threw up a stink like this, she'd have one chance to change her attitude or be out.

OP - simple thing appears to be to ask the au pair to tidy before the cleaner visits, and to have those visits fixed.

Just ask her why! It’s part of the house and part of the job, seems a strange position to take and I wonder if there’s not more to it.

I think I would have to tell her that she is paid to clean the whole house and if that isn't going to be done you will need to either cut her pay a little or find another cleaner.

to me she has to do it even if you'd rather not have the hassle otherwise who's in charge. That or find a new cleaner

I think this is a ridiculous situation. The cleaner is presumably self employed as she comes to you one day a week and chooses the day. The au pair is supposed to be treated as a member of the family. It makes absolutely no sense to me that your cleaner would refuse to clean her room because of some "staff" or "colleague" issue. They aren't co-employees. If the au pair is secretly being incredibly rude to the cleaner or the cleaner thinks she is, or the room itself is in some way so unhygienic that the cleaner doesn't feel she should be expected to clean it, then the cleaner should be telling you what the problem is so that you can address it with the au pair.

I'd ask outright why she hasn't continued to clean the whole house and what is it about the au pairs room that she thinks she shouldn't clean it

Unless obviously you do have a contract of employment with your cleaner in which case maybe you are in a position of having to manage two employees...

Just tell her to do it or leave.. You pay her well, you're the boss. Cleaners are easy to come by.

18 year old might be worth keeping an eye on - she has already caused trouble between you and your longstanding employee. Most 18 year olds I know would have just assumed cleaning their room was up to them.

Good cleaners are hard to come by where I am. I'd choose her side and let the au pair do her own room. Possibly she herself is used to staff and is a bit haughty with the cleaner?

I think you should at least try to see the cleaners side!. It's extra work to clean after an extra person and a room she didn't do before. Just because you treat your staff what you consider to be well doesn't mean you get to give them extra unpaid work.

I agree about her probably feeling cleaning for someone ‘on the same level as her’ is ... degrading?

I’m slightly concerned that the au pair may be trying to get the cleaner into trouble here, is there a possibility that the au pair acts a little haughty around the cleaner and is in fact making your previously lovely cleaner feel beneath her? I know you have said that they get on, but as you also said, you have no idea if this is the truth.

Oh ffs. If you’re paid to clean a house you don’t start refusing rooms on the basis of the status or personality of the incumbent.

If my cleaner tried this she’d be fired.

I would tell her her job is to clean the house, she either cleans the whole house or she leaves. She's being pathetic.

I agree about her probably feeling cleaning for someone ‘on the same level as her’ is ... degrading?

This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. A snobby cleaner giving herself airs? Quibbling about status? So absurd it can’t be true and if it were she needs to go.

@DarkYearForMySoul nothing "has been stopped" yet.
There is pre settled status option. Unless no deal, there are no changes for 2 years anyway.
Also, there is no income cut out fgs.

If you want to randomly stuff Brexit where there is no need, at least learn the facts.

OP. You have to find out why she doesn't want to clean the room.

Sounds like a cultural issue. You mention your cleaner is not English - perhaps in her culture you don't clean the room of someone else who also works for the family?

she has never cleaned au pairs room- I only discovered this today, so I texted her to say it was ok to go in there in case she didn't want to invade privacy. She replied saying she would t do it. Also au pair is sweet, sensible, doesn't drink, likes physics and engineering etc.

Op do you mean she never used to clean the room - or has previously cleaned it and has only stopped since you've had the au pair?

YANBU. But what are you planning to do, op? If anything?

@infinitesheldon but the cleaner did clean the au pairs room before the au pair started living in it. So now she’s cleaning one room less. The OP has said so several times.

Presumably the cleaner cleans the whole house not just one or two rooms. But now is choosing to clean one room less.

Sit down and talk to the cleaner, tell her she needs to clean the house as normal or let her go. I couldn’t be doing with the stress of a stroppy cleaner.

To be honest, I'm on the cleaner's side. Why doesn't the au pair clean her own room? Light housework can be included in au pair's work and everyone should clean their own room anyway (of course, you've outsourced yours to someone else by paying them, but the au pair hasn't).

" She regards your au-pair as ‘staff’, therefore she should do her own cleaning. "

Yes, maybe this is it, but I don't see why that would make the cleaner a 'snob'. It would be very snobby of an 18-year old girl to expect someone else to clean her room imo.