Farmers dogs on public footpath

[Cuppateeee]

Just been on a lovely walk in the countryside, only to be spoiled by a shouty farmer. Need a different perspective on it otherwise it will just wind me up. Will include picture.

Walking with my dog on a lead through a field, staying on the public footpath when I see two border collies barking in the distance. I stay where I am to look for a farmer to check if they are aggressive or not, no one in sight, they are staying where they are but still barking and in the way of where I need to walk, so I went back and walked down the other side of the fence.

I get to the bottom and see the dogs have gone, also notice the gate was open so they could have got to me anyway, never mind I’m there now and go over the stile back onto the public footpath.

Only then I notice the dogs have come back, so again I check to see if I can see the farmer because whilst they weren’t growling they were barking which is intimidating enough.

At this point there is a fence between us so not a problem but I check to see where the public footpath leads and you’re supposed to join the farm track but their gate is open. The dogs are following me and my dog down the fence, still barking, so I decided to walk away from them not wanting to risk what would happen when we reach the open gate. I am at this point on the farmers field.

After a few steps a farmer comes running shouting for my attention, I stop and see what he wants. He said ‘the footpath doesn’t go along there, you’re damaging the crops’. So he was clearly watching me, and would have been able to see that I was uncomfortable with his dogs around.

There is snow on the field so I wasn’t sure what I was walking on but either way I said, sorry I appreciate that but your dogs were being aggressive towards me and my dog so I felt I had no choice.

He kept repeating that if I can’t stick to the path then I shouldn’t go on the walk, which in normal circumstances I totally agree with, but in this case I felt it best, to protect me and my dog.

He insists his dogs are not aggressive, they are with him at this point, still barking but I admit not growling or coming closer, just staying with him, but I said again that I was not to know this and didn’t want to risk anything happening to my dogs.

In the end I walked away because he clearly could not see my point of view.

So was IBU waking on his land or was he. And if he was is there anything I can do to stop if happening to someone else. Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.

For anyone thinking sheep worrying is rare needs to get to know farmers in real life (so you get to hear about it first hand) or be friends with them on FB. Ewes with skin hanging off, feet or legs torn half off or a lamb half in and half out with it's head bitten off is the reality for these people that provide food for the nation. The legislation they have to conform to just to dispose of the carcases is headspinning.

Just watching Countryfile isn't enough to learn the truth of their lives. Since the early morning farming program finished on Radio 4 and Countryfile became derived from the altogether less sugar coated Farming (IIRC) there is no readily available platform for those outside of farming to have the tiniest inkling. Some recent programs scratched the surface but even with these the subjects were chosen very carefully indeed.

You’re being unreasonable. You had no business trespassing on his private property. Would you like it if people trampled around your property? Also, it’s the countryside. If you can’t deal with animals in the countryside best avoid it

“No. You know it does happen. You said yourself. You think it’s rare. So that’s an admission that it does happen. You clearly don’t pay much attention to local news if you live in the country and haven’t heard about sheep worrying.”

Remarkable stuff. What do you mean, an admission? Of course it happens, I didn’t say otherwise. Utterly bizarre.

“One cannot appropriate being a country person merely by living in the countryside.

It's like me moving to Spain and claiming to be Spanish. Even if I learnt to speak Spanish and observed Spanish culture, I'm still not Spanish.

The very fact you are trying to trying to claim dog on sheep attacks are rare suggests you don't exactly have your finger on the rural pulse.”

Ha ha.

There is no “qualification” required for being someone who lives in the countryside.

You CAN become a Spanish National.

Of all the millions of dogs living in the UK, what percentage are involved in incidents with livestock in any given year?

Of all the millions upon millions of livestock in the UK, what percentage are killed by dogs?

Do you understand what the word “rare” means?

Oh good god, Streetwise what kind of illogical cul e sac have you argued yourself into?

You obviously know fuck all about the realities of the lives of any farming neighbours you have. Are you surrounded by other townies living in an enclave in the coutryside?

We have lots of little housing estate spoppong up around here, full of people who seem think as you do. The farm land around their estate, that their estate wa spart of last month, is just a dirty nuisance, farmers and their animals are so passe, uneducated, Neanderthal!

Are you one of those people?

Cos everything you have posted shows a singular lack of understanding of the realities of almos tevery aspect of farming, frm livestock to land management to subsidies. Extraordinarily ill informed, yet so persistent!

I'd suggest you join the local facebook page, the one where your local farming community shares warnings of thieves, dogs, poisons and other dangers. Then come back and tell us how rare dog worying is and how insignificiant it is!

Until then shut the fuck up! You sound deranged!

What a hate filled post. ⬆️

How do you know I don’t know anything about agricultural life, and what makes you think I’m a “townie”? Anyone who think in those terms has a problem to overcome IMO.

No, I don’t live in a new build housing estate. I live in the countryside, surrounded by farms, with no new build housing estates within 10 miles.

I closed my Facebook in 2014, and won’t be rejoining so that I can see what local farmers are saying thanks. From what I am hear in the community though, there is zero mention of dog attacks on livestock.

And no, I won’t shut the fuck up.

Of all the millions upon millions of livestock in the UK, what percentage are killed by dogs?

Fuck me, how many animals are allowed to be killed by dogs until you think it is a problem. Even one animal hurt can be a massive impact on a farmer, and that's aside from the absolute cruelty of allowing (and you are allowing it by letting a dog attack) any animal.

Of all the millions of dogs living in the UK, what percentage are involved in incidents with livestock in any given year?

Of all the millions upon millions of livestock in the UK, what percentage are killed by dogs?

Ah, stats, yes. Millions of people also drive everyday and yet "only" 5 people are killed on the roads each day. One can argue that this is rare, or point out that we wouldn't put up with it if it was happening on other forms of transport.

A better question might be "how many of the thousands of livestock farmers in the UK have dealt with dog attacks in any given year". I suspect you'd find a very high percentage. I've spent time out on horseback trying to help farmers look for injured sheep who have hidden away to die. It isn't pretty.

Hate filled? Right! I am trying to understand how you can live in the countryside, surrounded by farmers and believe all the bile you have spewed in your previous posts! And you say my post is hate filled!

I think I have it then... you live in an arable area, no livestock? Or an area that doesn't have much weekend tourism, dog walkers.

Round here we get at least 2 facebook warning in the summer and a couple more about now! The summer ones are probably worse as the farmer often has no idea what damage has been done, until any number of his ewes remain pregnant. The ones now are horrendous! A single dog can do a lot of damage to ewes on the verge of giving birth.

I loe that you don't want to know what is going on around you but still insist you are well informed.

Keep posting. You do sound as though you love in a cute little bubble!

“how many of the thousands of livestock farmers in the UK have dealt with dog attacks in any given year". I suspect you'd find a very high percentage.”

It wouldn’t be a high percentage at all.

I’m glad we are agreed on the definition of rare, and that dog attacks on livestock are statistically rare in the UK.

“believe all the bile you have spewed in your previous posts! ”

I have criticised farmers. I don’t like them much. But I haven’t posted any “bile”. Just because you encounter a view that sends you into an unravelling tailspin of rage, that doesn’t mean that view is “bile”.
There is a lot of livestock near me. I haven’t heard of a single dog attack in years now. There are lots of dogs in the area, and lots of dog walkers from local towns are seen out with groups of dogs.

Appropriate fencing and gates can prevent almost all dog attacks. I see some good quality fencing but far too often it is badly maintained or erected cheaply or lazily in the first place.

We have a footpath that crosses our land and it’s quite problematic.

We have been careful to ensure that footpath access is maintained and have also spent a considerable amount of money to enhance the footpath by putting down shingle, planting bulbs and flowers alongside it and making sure that branches and hedging is kept trimmed.

Despite this, we’ve had people complain that they can’t access the land and river beside the footpath as we have recently installed wire mesh fencing to stop trespassing.
It really angers me when I hear the public talk about their right to access but think that this entitled them to trespass onto private land beside footpaths too.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45075534

Scotland, 67% increase in attacks, costing c£330,000 in one year

www.countryfile.com/wildlife/wildlife-stories/dog-attacks-on-livestock-how-bad-is-the-problem-and-what-are-the-possible-solutions/

15,000 sheep killed by dogs in 2016 - that is sheep, not lost lambs - £1.3m loss in one year

RSPCA in 2017 found that 24% of owners reported that their dog chases livestock, wildlife or other animals. Of these, 29% sought help but 43% did not consider the behaviour a problem.

www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/farmer-devastated-after-29-sheep-killed-in-dog-attack

One farmer, one dog

Now, try and understand, I am not in an "unravelling tailspin of rage" (very good imagery though, I do like that), I am just bemused that, having argued yourself into a corner you are still proud to defend your inaccuracies and lack of knowledge!

I am guessing you are finding all of this very amusing, as you sit in your urban terrace, Midlands? London? Manchester? Who knows? Or cares?

I feel for you OP. Yes maybe you should have cut the field corner but two border collies are intimidating and it sounds like the farmer knows that and is trying to keep folk away.

What kind of dog do you have?

I live in Scotland where we have the right to walk where we want - not across fields right enough - and I know that farm dogs are scary. They are generally ok though - sometimes I hold a stick and shoo them away.

Be brave next time and keep waking and the dogs will hopefully get used to you!

By the way, I think we have it right in Scotland. Landowners in England behave very badly. I have walked and hiked my whole life and have never had an issue, caused damage nor let my dogs cause a problem. It’s common sense and courtesy both ways.

Called you might like to read the first link in my post above yours! It is a growing problem in Scotland!

All over the UK people just don't understand the countryside code or see the problem with their dogs 'playing' - survey results included in other links.

You may not be a problem, but others are, and are growing in their numbers. There's an interesting note about Planners needing to include dog walking and local councils to stop banning dogs from everywhere as it just pushes uninformed dog walkers out into the countryside!

I’ve told you already, I live in the countryside.

I would have grave doubts about the figures presented. Farmers are known to exaggerate.

Even if the figures were true this represents a tiny, minuscule proportion of all livestock and all dogs. The monetary amounts you mention are a drop in the ocean compared to the GDP of the agricultural industry in the UK.

The example you give where so many sheep died is awful. I believe these were guard dogs who escaped from a home. Accidents will always happen. HOWEVER, this could have been avoided with the correct fencing and gates.

If you are walking your dog and it harms livestock, that is rightly a criminal offence. But if farmers can not accept elements of risk in their business model as every other business must then they can build better fences.

Fantastic!

op you just need to ask yourself, how would you feel about people traipsing over the flowerbeds in your garden to avoid your barking dog? They could have stuck to the path, but it meant they had to go closer to the dog / or stand in a puddle / or whatever other excuse they fancy using.

My family are farmers and the problem is people don't think about the larger picture; we have people walking across our fields, off the foot paths every day! They have been asked not to, there are (ignored) signs and still they do it! This has been happening for 20+ years. The days of politeness are long gone because it is tiresome.

They have left gates open and let stock out, the worst incident ending in 6 horses (2 in foal) getting onto a busy A road and ending in an absolute catastrophe!

Of course yanbu the replies to this thread are . If he wants people to stick to the path (a public right of way) he needs to not obstruct it with his dogs. Jeez people are nuts, he was being an arse as some farmers are well renowned for. Not ALL before someone jumps on me but farming seems to attract a larger than average proportion of arrogant twats.

opyou just need to ask yourself, how would you feel about people traipsing over the flowerbeds in your garden to avoid your barking dog? They could have stuck to the path, but it meant they had to go closer to the dog / or stand in a puddle / or whatever other excuse they fancy using.

There isn't a public footpath in the OP'S garden. And she wasn't in the farmers garden it is a completely different scenario.

I'm a 'townie' and my DH is a farmer's son, after staying with my PIL's for a year (long story) I've learnt a great deal about the country ways and rules, so to speak!

While walking off designated paths is a firm no-no and most working dogs will bark at strangers and I wouldn't be worried by this, if you explained you were nervous I think he could have been a little kinder to you.

But then I think wouldn't it be nicer if everyone was a little bit kinder. Don't let it stop you going back, OP, and enjoying the fab countryside we have.

This is the thing that farmers wilfully refuse to accept. A garden is one thing. It’s a private area which forms a curtilage, with your dwelling.

200 acres isn’t your private garden. And it never will be.

It really angers me when I hear the public talk about their right to access but think that this entitled them to trespass onto private land beside footpaths too.

It really angers me when landowners think they have the right to stop the poor masses walking in the countryside. Why does having more money than everyone else give you the right to stop people accessing land and enjoying the countryside? The wire mesh sounds lovely

I don’t know if I believe those figures. I live rurally and mainly we all rub along fine.

There are certainly attacks on livestock but mainly nearer the cities

It generally works in Scotland because we generally use common sense.