Farmers dogs on public footpath

[Cuppateeee]

Just been on a lovely walk in the countryside, only to be spoiled by a shouty farmer. Need a different perspective on it otherwise it will just wind me up. Will include picture.

Walking with my dog on a lead through a field, staying on the public footpath when I see two border collies barking in the distance. I stay where I am to look for a farmer to check if they are aggressive or not, no one in sight, they are staying where they are but still barking and in the way of where I need to walk, so I went back and walked down the other side of the fence.

I get to the bottom and see the dogs have gone, also notice the gate was open so they could have got to me anyway, never mind I’m there now and go over the stile back onto the public footpath.

Only then I notice the dogs have come back, so again I check to see if I can see the farmer because whilst they weren’t growling they were barking which is intimidating enough.

At this point there is a fence between us so not a problem but I check to see where the public footpath leads and you’re supposed to join the farm track but their gate is open. The dogs are following me and my dog down the fence, still barking, so I decided to walk away from them not wanting to risk what would happen when we reach the open gate. I am at this point on the farmers field.

After a few steps a farmer comes running shouting for my attention, I stop and see what he wants. He said ‘the footpath doesn’t go along there, you’re damaging the crops’. So he was clearly watching me, and would have been able to see that I was uncomfortable with his dogs around.

There is snow on the field so I wasn’t sure what I was walking on but either way I said, sorry I appreciate that but your dogs were being aggressive towards me and my dog so I felt I had no choice.

He kept repeating that if I can’t stick to the path then I shouldn’t go on the walk, which in normal circumstances I totally agree with, but in this case I felt it best, to protect me and my dog.

He insists his dogs are not aggressive, they are with him at this point, still barking but I admit not growling or coming closer, just staying with him, but I said again that I was not to know this and didn’t want to risk anything happening to my dogs.

In the end I walked away because he clearly could not see my point of view.

So was IBU waking on his land or was he. And if he was is there anything I can do to stop if happening to someone else. Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.

@Teateaandmoretea You DO have access to the countryside, through a huge network of rights of way, access to which is (rightly) enshrined in law and (equally rightly) enforced vigorously. However, landowners - whether it’s 2000 acres or 2 square feet - have every right to have their land be private. There is no entitlement to access private property unless there is a right of way over it, in which case those accessing the right of way have to stick to the designated path. It’s not so difficult to understand is it? Just because you perceive someone to have something you don’t, doesn’t mean you can chippily demand access to it. It’s attitudes like yours that lead to landowners putting up mesh fences etc.

Do I smell a sock? Similar use of language!!!

BrightYellowDaffodil, your feudal fantasy doesn’t apply in Scotland. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Hooray.

YANBU, it's really bloody annoying when farm dogs run loose on public rights of way. We walk all the time, always stick to footpaths, close gates, follow the countryside code, yet frequently get chased/barked at and occasionally bitten by vicious farm dogs. As for PPs saying go back the other way, if you're doing a circular route back to your car it's really not that simple, and quite frankly why should you have to? Respect goes both ways and farmers should be keeping their dogs off public footpaths if they are anti social (and lots of them seem to be from my experience)

@StreetwiseHercules. It’s hardly a “feudal fantasy” it’s how things are in England and Wales.

“@StreetwiseHercules. It’s hardly a “feudal fantasy” it’s how things are in England and Wales.”

Indeed. And you love it. You have to wonder about the kind of society that accepts feudalism.

Strange too that in England, where access is more restricted, the problems are greater.

brightyellow

No, your attitude is the problem that money = ownership of countryside. Thankfully not all landowners agree with you, owner of our local estate has many permissive paths etc.

The OP felt unsafe because of the actions of the landowner and took a detour. She had her dog on a lead. She was being respectful, the landowner was not.

@StreetwiseHercules. It’s hardly a “feudal fantasy” it’s how things are in England and Wales.

Ah but you'd like public rights of way eradicated by the sound of it. Absolute feudal fantasy by anyone's reckoning.

@scrowy excellent post at 00.05

Jesus some of the replies on this thread are batshit. It makes you wonder why we bother working so damned hard to feed, clothe or fuel the population when there’s an ever increasing percentage of them who are determined that we only exist to make their lives a misery in order to roll around in the piles of cash they think we have. We are farmers, we get paid less than our cost of production for all that we produce. Our costs continue to go up and up and yet the general public expect us to sell at lower and lower prices. Farmers subsidies exist so that your bread, milk, eggs etc is available to you at a reasonable price. No farmer would survive if they were only ever receiving the price that is paid in supermarkets. If those subsidies that people seem to resent so much were to disappear tomorrow, your weekly shop would either be much more sparse or far more expensive. They aren’t there to provide farmers with a luxury lifestyle, they’re there to make sure YOU have access to reasonably priced food and drink.

With regard to the OP I appreciate why you might have done it, and perhaps his attitude was unpleasant (although as we weren’t there it’s difficult to infer his tone from your writing), but from your diagram you strayed from the path not once but twice. The dogs weren’t randomly in a field in the middle of nowhere- they were around the house and buildings and are probably farm more effective than any doorbell. I appreciate that you have had previous experience of agressive dogs, but that’s your experience and is in no way relevant to those dogs in particular. You say yourself that the dogs never actually approached you so other than the barking (which is not an indicator of aggression on it’s own) you didn’t really have any reason to think they would. Equally you say that there was no one around- probably because the dogs alerted him to you being there and he saw you were just a walker and assumed you’d carry on your way on the path and that would be that. Then you start trampling all over his crops (which, incidentally, are also covered in snow and frozen so are at an increase risk of being damaged by this) and he appears to tell you not to do that. He might not have been polite but I don’t think it’s an offence to be impolite to someone damaging your livelihood because they thought something might have happened but it didn’t. Anyway you know to stick to the path in future. Suggestions of signs and fencing are all well and good, but 1) signs can often be taken as an admission that dogs/animals/livestock are aggressive. We are in a national park and are not allowed to display signs which say things like “caution bull in field” because it is seen as an admission that said bull requires caution due to aggression. We are only allowed signs which say “livestock in field, please keep dogs on leads” so no one can say that we’ve already admitted that the animals were aggressive even if they’re not. A lot of people mistake curiosity for aggression if they know no better. 2) who is paying for these signs and fences? Because presumably you’re not going to be chipping in despite you being the one who benefits? We already operate on such tight margins that unnecessary fencing costs would mean we have to make cuts in other areas instead. It’s far easier all round if people who use these rights of way appreciate that the farm is a working farm and as such they should behave accordingly. That’s not to say it’s acceptable for farmers to discourage people from using them at all, but it gets very wearing having to explain that they don’t have the right to have their dogs off lead or to stray from the path.

I absolutely don’t want rights of way eradicated. I use them myself, campaign for them to be extended and maintained and have been a vocal complainant when they’ve become blocked or impassable. But I respect the law and it’s operation.

As for money, well you could say that about anything. If your neighbour has a nice car you can’t afford, are you entitled to a go in it? The bottom line is that there are laws about access to land, breaking them can cause harm and they need to be stuck to. Simple.

Indeed. And you love it.

You are most odd.

With regard to the OP I appreciate why you might have done it, and perhaps his attitude was unpleasant

^^ exactly this.

What is 'batshit' as you put it is to decide that everyone who defends that the 'public' have a right to use the countryside do so in a way that is damaging and to get instantly wound up.

We have a path that we regularly skirt off to avoid trampling crops - or should I stick to the path because I am technically trespassing?

The OP felt unsafe. I've had some seriously frightening moments with farm dogs in my life and I don't blame her. FWIW I don't have a dog and never have. I have seen people do outrageous things and so can sometimes see where farmers are coming from. There was a thread on here arguing it was fine to use drones as long as you were stood on the public path .

I find this idea here that farmers are all lovely, cuddly people a bit odd.

I used a footpath to get to school - but, when the farmer was annoyed (by life in general, his neighbours, or whatever) he'd put a particularly aggressive horse in the field so no-one could use the path. We all knew the horse, and enough people had been bitten by him (including other horse-owners who stables there) that we all stayed away and did an extra 30 min walk when he was there.

Sheep, cows (who did block the styles through their sheer size), the rest of the horses were fine.

We knew the farmer, we knew why he did it, and it was purely to get back at people who'd annoyed him.

Farmers are human too, and that means they can be as petty as the rest of us.

Last year

“It makes you wonder why we bother working so damned hard to feed, clothe or fuel the population“

Cash.

Nobody resents your subsidies. But as a publicly funded industry maybe just have a bit less contempt for the public when you find them in the countryside.

As for money, well you could say that about anything. If your neighbour has a nice car you can’t afford, are you entitled to a go in it? The bottom line is that there are laws about access to land, breaking them can cause harm and they need to be stuck to. Simple.

No, it's completely different. Everyone in the village can have an expensive car or not, my neighbour having a 70k car doesn't stop me from buying one. Only one person can own a particular piece of land that is adjacent to the village.

I'm glad you're in favour of rights of way, your pp didn't exactly give that impression

Absolutely ridiculous comments about farmers on first page.

I find this idea here that farmers are all lovely, cuddly people a bit odd. Nobody has said that! Nobody!

If you have to rely on a lie to make your point you lose your audience!

The rest of your post was a good representation of bolshy bastrads you find everywhere, farmers included.

I think the point is curious that these threads tend to always take the position of farmer = right; member of 'public' = wrong. Neither group are saints and both can be completely out of order. And lets not forget the neighbouring farmer's dog who attacks the sheep...... after all they are the ones who let their dogs roam most frequently and I've seen this happen.

Then make that point, not a hyperbolic one!

My point was thatby using hyperbole you lost your audience.

I did also say that the rest ofyour post was a fair representation, I don't disagree with. There are some gobshite farmers round here too!

And waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back on page 1 I did recommend that OP just put it down to experience and not to let it stop her from using Public Footpaths! Since then, like many others, I have been posting (and laughing) at the stupidity enshirned withing Streetwises posts. So yes, I suppose I would seem to be defending farmers and not seeing the other side!

Members of the public disrespecting the countryside code - very small minority.

Proportion of farmers with outright contempt for the public and the countryside code - very high.

In my experience.

But it is just experience isn't it street? There are fewer farmers than members of the public, so if you are unlucky with a couple next to you then it colours how you think. When I was a teenager I rode and several of the farmers locally were horrible - one of them used to literally drive his tractor through you - you had to jump out of the way , they deliberately and unnecessarily placed birds scarers next to the road so you had to ride past them. So I may have felt like this.

But these days our farmers/landowners round here are mainly perfectly reasonable people. So it's changed my perspective tbh.

Ok, I'll bite.
Streetwise “It makes you wonder why we bother working so damned hard to feed, clothe or fuel the population“

Cash.

Nobody resents your subsidies.

I think you do... It certainly comes across like you have a bit, fat chip on your shoulder about how rich you think farmers are 'I've never met a poor farmer' . Come out to the hills of Wales and meet a few.
Also, your ridiculous comment about good fencing would prevent livestock chasing - have you ever walked on a right of way? You know that they pass right through the middle of fields sometimes? You want the farmer to securely fence both sides of the right of way, right through the middle of his field? How would the livestock get from one side to the other?... Bonkers!

Finally... Good post from Scrowy at 00.05

I don’t resent farmers subsidies. We all need reasonably priced food.

I do resent the prevailing mindset as I see it in the farming community. That person on this thread droning on about “townies” was a good example.

Rights of way through the middle of fields can’t be all that common. Where it occurs, if I was a farmer, I would think about fencing and/or think about different uses of the land.

Land is variable. When you own it you take the rough with the smooth. There are plenty of fields which don’t have rights of way through the middle of them.