Farmers dogs on public footpath

[Cuppateeee]

Just been on a lovely walk in the countryside, only to be spoiled by a shouty farmer. Need a different perspective on it otherwise it will just wind me up. Will include picture.

Walking with my dog on a lead through a field, staying on the public footpath when I see two border collies barking in the distance. I stay where I am to look for a farmer to check if they are aggressive or not, no one in sight, they are staying where they are but still barking and in the way of where I need to walk, so I went back and walked down the other side of the fence.

I get to the bottom and see the dogs have gone, also notice the gate was open so they could have got to me anyway, never mind I’m there now and go over the stile back onto the public footpath.

Only then I notice the dogs have come back, so again I check to see if I can see the farmer because whilst they weren’t growling they were barking which is intimidating enough.

At this point there is a fence between us so not a problem but I check to see where the public footpath leads and you’re supposed to join the farm track but their gate is open. The dogs are following me and my dog down the fence, still barking, so I decided to walk away from them not wanting to risk what would happen when we reach the open gate. I am at this point on the farmers field.

After a few steps a farmer comes running shouting for my attention, I stop and see what he wants. He said ‘the footpath doesn’t go along there, you’re damaging the crops’. So he was clearly watching me, and would have been able to see that I was uncomfortable with his dogs around.

There is snow on the field so I wasn’t sure what I was walking on but either way I said, sorry I appreciate that but your dogs were being aggressive towards me and my dog so I felt I had no choice.

He kept repeating that if I can’t stick to the path then I shouldn’t go on the walk, which in normal circumstances I totally agree with, but in this case I felt it best, to protect me and my dog.

He insists his dogs are not aggressive, they are with him at this point, still barking but I admit not growling or coming closer, just staying with him, but I said again that I was not to know this and didn’t want to risk anything happening to my dogs.

In the end I walked away because he clearly could not see my point of view.

So was IBU waking on his land or was he. And if he was is there anything I can do to stop if happening to someone else. Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.

On reading this thread you would really think farmers are sitting about on their arses all day with plenty of time to agonise about how some member of the public will cope with their barking dogs. The farmers are bloody working! The dogs are also working! Moving about the farmland, completing tasks.

The OP said people don’t respect farmers because they’re rude. I don’t think that’s true - people don’t respect farmers because they have no understanding of what the job actually involves. People are so disconnected from the countryside and food production now.

As someone with farmers in my family, I know that some farmers are cunts. In the general population a certain proportion of people are cunts. So not surprising that some farmers are.
Yes people can be ignorant about the countryside, but lets not pretend everyone in the countryside is wonderful.

have come across a bull in a field that was a public footpath. Just the bull in the field. Some farmers are cunts.

@markymarkle this is not unusual. Not unusual to have one bull, because of the nature of their job (impregnating female cattle), one is often enough. Not a good idea just to leave them in with the females once he’s done his job, he’d just harass them and work himself up. Also due to all of that testosterone, they don’t get on too well with other male cattle either.

I’m not totally sure of the law, but I suppose the farmer is allowed to use his fields anyway he chooses, so it’s kind of tough luck if the field with a public path is the one he needs to put his bull in.

Your post is just another example of people’s lack of understanding of farming. And to call farmers cunts for doing their job, making a living on their own property, is dreadful.

Have you missed my farming background?
And no a farmer is not allowed to leave a bull in a field where there is a right of way.
This was over a very well used public footpath.
So absolutely nothing to do with not understanding farming.

Fair do’s Mary, maybe that one was a cunt then! In Scotland we don’t have all the public footpaths through farmland, so I wasn’t sure of the law.

Yes I think the farmer was. I am well aware many complaints are unreasonable, but sometimes they are not.

Someone has already posted the law on bulls in fields. It's allowed in certain circumstances.
Regarding width, some paths have a recorded width but not all. Although there is a default width to be restored through a ploughed field if there isn't a recorded width.

And it is rubbish that you can not buy or rent a cottage that does not have one, although it may be true that you can rarely buy a whole estate without one.

Which is why I didn't say that. I said it would be hard to find a rural property without an access path. Not all of these have become designated footpaths.

"the law assumes that if the public uses a path without interference for some period of time – set by statute at 20 years - then the owner had intended to dedicate it as a right of way."

There was a shift in usage post WW2 and an increasing move to view the countryside as something the general public should have a right to use, hence "national parks". Thus paths which were marked on the early OS marks prior to the Act are just shown as paths. it then becomes a greater issue of public use as the countryside came under more pressure with an increasing urban and suburban population visiting. This is when those generally used paths, by locals and inhabitants, become something officially marked up and legally enshrined.

It was a quid pro quo - to stop people wandering willy-nilly across the countryside, certain paths were officially designated so the public only used certain bits.

“Yes, and my old springer spaniel used to scale Nelson’s Column just for a laugh
Seeing as you said you were in Scotland upthread, wouldn’t it have been more convenient for your dug just to climb the Melville Monument?

Did it go down on the overnight bus by itself?”

It took the train.

By access path you mean the path to your door and gate? Sure all my family in the countryside have this. None of then have paths used by the public in their house or garden. But then none of them have large estates either.

“I don’t think that’s true - people don’t respect farmers because they have no understanding of what the job actually involves. People are so disconnected from the countryside and food production now.”

I’m not really arsed what their job involves. It’s their choice to do it and I don’t imagine farmers sit around pondering what I have to do in my job.

It is also hard to find an urban property without an access path. That is not what is being talked about here.

Some clarity on the issue of cattle and footpaths :

www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/tips-on-staying-legal-with-bulls-and-cows-near-footpaths

It is a 2014 article though. Interestingly, the legislation is just as concerned about cows with calves.

I've got part way along a bridleway before to find that one of the cows lying down was in fact a particularly fine Hereford bull - AKA a big red and white one - as it lumbered to its feet. All legal, because it was a beef breed in with cows. I was glad I was on a horse though as cattle tend to be quite accepting of horses and I trusted mine to win in a race against them. Not sure how I'd have felt on foot though.

Just came on here to highlight the dangers of neospora and other nasties and to remind people to pick up dog poo in the country just as you would in town. But crikey this thread is an eye-opener! Hats off to the farmers who posted such measured replies in the face of such unwarranted hostility. As if farming wasn't hard enough! Hell, half the time there wouldn't be lovely open countryside for us and our dogs to enjoy if it weren't for their hard graft!

Imho you get the odd grumpy one (as in any walk of life), but most of the farmers I know are really passionate about their work, and very willing to share their knowledge. And no they are definitely not rich! And yes proper fencing costs a fortune!

And you may laugh but my standard daschund can easily climb a six ft fence! He takes a huge springing jump from the ground (no run up) and then kind of scrabbles vertically up the rest. It's amazing to watch given the short legs!

I’m not really arsed what their job involves. It’s their choice to do it and I don’t imagine farmers sit around pondering what I have to do in my job. Nor do they sit at their keyboard moaning about how you do it. Yet here you are...

Find it hilarious that everyone is saying how well trained and non aggressive farm dogs are. I'm a 'country' person and yes, they're well trained to do their job but they, without exception around where I live and neighboring town: chase cars, bicycles and other dogs walking past their farm (very dangerous to traffic and people), wander off their farm and into people's gardens, don't come back when the farmer calls them unless out with shepherd. OP, farmer should have called his dogs back. (I carry anti bear spray I brought back from the states and that stops me worrying about loose aggressive dogs.)

It is also hard to find an urban property without an access path. That is not what is being talked about here

The point I was making is that many footpaths were originally access paths to people's properties. It's what they're for. Some became officially designated paths after 1949. But the reason you'll find so many farms have footpaths skirting near the farm yard is because this is where their origins lie.

In the 1960s, as increasing motor car ownership gave more people access to the countryside, there was often a process of renegotiation of these paths. Leisure paths were marked out, often by National Park rangers and they wanted to make sensible walks for people but found that often paths ended at someone's back door. So in marking out routes they had to negotiate with landowners and sometimes make slight legal changes to the path and its route.

You can read about the problems of one person in one area (Exmoor) here www1.somerset.gov.uk/archives/Exmoor/collinssummary1.htm#1/4 Some of this applies to permissive paths rather than legally designated footpaths.

We can go round and round this, Mary, but you may have to accept that other people also know some stuff.

Just came on here to highlight the dangers of neospora and other nasties and to remind people to pick up dog poo in the country just as you would in town*

This has just reminded me of something else, a warning to anyone who takes dogs into farm land where there are horses at least, I'm not sure about cattle or sheep - maybe a farmer can clarify?
Horses are wormed generally 4 times a year, and we use different wormers at different times for different reasons, but Moxidectin is present in a lot of brands. It's toxic to dogs, and as anyone who has had a dog near horse poo will know, dogs like to eat it if unchecked! It's rare that a mature dog could eat enough to make them seriously ill but puppies or smaller dogs could suffer the effects. I have heard of one puppy sadly dying due to this. I know not many would stand by and watch their dogs eat horse crap anyway, but it's worth knowing.

I would have done the same thing OP. I'm sure he let the dogs out specifically to intimidate you and you had a right to access the path- he should have moved the dogs for you. Farmers hate people accessing public footpaths that they have a right to access.

I think this thread would be very different (i.e. other people's responses) if you had been attacked by the dogs and how could you have known whether that would happen if you had stuck to the footpath?!

He was being unreasonable!

Belerus I am well aware that is why you asked. Permissive paths as I am sure you know are very different from public footpaths and rights of way.
I have lived in the countryside, and also walked all over the country. The reality is popular walking routes are on public footpaths - paths between villages, or rights of way. Very occasionally rights of ways go through farmyards.
Public footpaths and rights of ways are usually ancient paths. And yes of course there has been a big increase in people using them. If you don't like people walking along rights of way or public footpaths, then move.

marymarkle - I would avoid bulls. Bullocks and cows are fine. Bullocks are lovely and very curious. And no it is not about the colour of the bull, it is whether they have been castrated or not that is the issue. Because castrated bulls are much less aggressive, Yes in general beef bulls are castrated, but there are exceptions.*

marymarkle- I was always taught that beef bulls are far less aggressive. But that is because they have been castrated. They are castrated to reduce aggression. Very occasionally beef bulls are not castrated though.

It's times like this I wish mumsnet had that facepalm emoticon.

There wouldn't be much point castrating a beef breeding bull would there be? I mean even if you didn't know anything about farming surely a basic understanding of biology would lead you to the conclusion that de-bollocking a bull would mean he would no longer be a very effective sire of calves. That's true regardless of whether he is a beef or dairy breed.

Male calves that are going into the food chain are castrated to stop them from mating with their sisters, to stop them being aggressive to each other trying to become dominant and to stop the meat getting tainted with the hormones that turn calves into bulls. Bullocks just become bigger and bigger calves rather than turning into adult male bulls.

Most of our land has footpaths and unfenced public roads running through it. We keep cows and calves and bulls on all of it through summer. They roam reasonably freely across about 150 acres, In several generations we have never had cows or a bull attack anyone, they are so used to people that they aren't at all bothered even by dogs.

I'm sure plenty of people have turned around when they have seen them though, perhaps gone home and cursed the 'cunt' farmer who has 'deliberately' put cows/ a bull on the footpath they happened to want to walk that day.

On the other hand we have had numerous sheep worrying incidents including one year when 25 week old lambs were killed. Horrific. We also find bags of dog shit, human poo and rubbish left everywhere. People trespassing wildly away from footpaths to help themselves to our raspberry and blackberry bushes, or more recently to go sledging.

Tourism is a huge part of our farm business, we actively promote the many footpaths running through our land with the hope it will encourage people choosing to stay with us in our holiday lets.

I don't agree with farmers who try to discourage walkers, but I completely understand why they do it.

Argh massive bold fail but you get the gist.

scrowy I do understand biology. But we have a family picture in one house of a large castrated bull. I don't know why. There is a suggestion it makes the meat more tender, but this could be rubbish.

Please don't lecture me, I do know what I am talking about. My dad worked with bullocks and loved them.

And you must have missed my comment where I said I kind of lost it two weeks ago at a couple who had let their dog chase sheep. My family have had ewes abort and drop dead because of being chased by sheep. I do bloody understand these things.

I get sick of the patronising on here some times.

And I still maintain that leaving a bull out on a public footpath is wrong. No I was not talking about various paths, it was a signed public footpath in a popular walking area.
You might be happy to walk through a field with a bull you do not know, I am not. Cows and bullocks no issue at all.