Farmers dogs on public footpath

[Cuppateeee]

Just been on a lovely walk in the countryside, only to be spoiled by a shouty farmer. Need a different perspective on it otherwise it will just wind me up. Will include picture.

Walking with my dog on a lead through a field, staying on the public footpath when I see two border collies barking in the distance. I stay where I am to look for a farmer to check if they are aggressive or not, no one in sight, they are staying where they are but still barking and in the way of where I need to walk, so I went back and walked down the other side of the fence.

I get to the bottom and see the dogs have gone, also notice the gate was open so they could have got to me anyway, never mind I’m there now and go over the stile back onto the public footpath.

Only then I notice the dogs have come back, so again I check to see if I can see the farmer because whilst they weren’t growling they were barking which is intimidating enough.

At this point there is a fence between us so not a problem but I check to see where the public footpath leads and you’re supposed to join the farm track but their gate is open. The dogs are following me and my dog down the fence, still barking, so I decided to walk away from them not wanting to risk what would happen when we reach the open gate. I am at this point on the farmers field.

After a few steps a farmer comes running shouting for my attention, I stop and see what he wants. He said ‘the footpath doesn’t go along there, you’re damaging the crops’. So he was clearly watching me, and would have been able to see that I was uncomfortable with his dogs around.

There is snow on the field so I wasn’t sure what I was walking on but either way I said, sorry I appreciate that but your dogs were being aggressive towards me and my dog so I felt I had no choice.

He kept repeating that if I can’t stick to the path then I shouldn’t go on the walk, which in normal circumstances I totally agree with, but in this case I felt it best, to protect me and my dog.

He insists his dogs are not aggressive, they are with him at this point, still barking but I admit not growling or coming closer, just staying with him, but I said again that I was not to know this and didn’t want to risk anything happening to my dogs.

In the end I walked away because he clearly could not see my point of view.

So was IBU waking on his land or was he. And if he was is there anything I can do to stop if happening to someone else. Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.

Like is say, I have my doubts about what you are saying.

Why? Do you just not like to think that dogs - and their owners - can be responsible for this?

Here's my handsome specimen. See all the trees behind? He hides sometimes - I know he could be lurking but a new to the area or towns person wouldn't.

Hey @jacks11, if farmers don’t like what comes with owning land, they can sell it, or plant trees on it. Public access, exercised responsibly is an important right.

Trying to “put people off” is something nobody has any right to do.

If the infrastructure is right in terms of fencing, gates, signs and cattle grids, there is no issue. There are probably grants available and normally money is more than enough to motivate farmers.

“Why? Do you just not like to think that dogs - and their owners - can be responsible for this?”

I think it is far more of a rare occurrence than is suggested by farmers.

jacks it's like the idiots who try and stroke the bears in the American/Canadian national parks!

Farming is the most subsidised industry in human history. I have never met a poor farmer. I have. Many. I grew up in a poor farming family. I suspect you haven't met many hill farmers if you think all farmers are rich. By the way it's food production that's subsidised not the farmers. No farmer can make a living out of the low production prices the consumer has become used to paying.

Farmers have an immense privilege in owning large swathes of the countryside (very cheaply) and being able to earn their living from it. we are still paying off land my grandad bought in the 1960s. Try buying some farm land and see how many acres £5k buys you of non favourable land (I.e land you can't grow crops on). The answer is, f all.

Ownership of land does not preclude farmers from the law or provide unrestricted benefits with an absence of responsibility in terms facilitating lawful and responsible public access to land. correct, but in return the public should attempt to stick to the countryside code. Many don't.

Farmers behave irresponsibly routinely, planting animal traps in woodland areas close to their farms which they do not own. (I destroy these when I find them). how do you know it's the farmers doing this? We own plenty of woodland and have a massive problem with illegal trapping and poaching by unknown others.

Farmers are notorious for persecuting wildlife, believe their countryside exists purely to self agriculture. They poison birds of prey, trap and kill wild mammals, oppose species reintroduction and think it is a reasonable thing to do to shoot crows it is reasonable to shoot crows, and legal. They are a pest and menace to other small birds. Without control they can decimate wild bird populations. They also peck sheep's eyes out and rake baby lambs tongues. Farmers have an interest in keeping their numbers down for that reason but it ultimately leads to a greater good. RSPB have recently admitted that 'missing' birds of prey have been a result of faulty trackers and not farming persecution.

Farmers are poor at maintaining fences around their fields and livestock, often allowing livestock to wander into roads, into woodlands and into public areas. ummm providing animals aren't being farmed on common land (where they are allowed to roam free across roads, into woodland and public areas) then this kind of poor stockmanship would be extremely frowned upon even by the farming community.

Almost always they are rude and exhibit territorial behaviours. like not wanting people walking through their crops/chasing their sheep because that's their livelihood? Yeah I'll give you that one.

Farmers themselves in my experience believe the countryside code exists for their benefit but does not apply to them. which part of the countryside code do you feel farmers aren't adhering to?

Farmers have been known to threaten to shoot dogs and people. I would not allow farmers to keep firearms. Farmers are allowed to shoot dogs if they are worrying livestock. farmers who hold a gun lisence do do to humanely dispatch of animals (wild or farmed) who are suffering or are a pest eligible for legal population control. Lots if farmers these days don't keep guns because it's not worth the hassle.

Anyone seriously threatening to shoot a human should be reported to the police just like anyone else.

Alan Partridge was right about farmers I love Alan Partridge.

I think your idea that they need signs up informing you the dogs might bark is a decidedly odd and highly impractical. Where would they put these signs, for a start?

"Dear Cityfolk,

The private field you are about to enter is called a 'farm'. It is a working property and therefore may contain very real animals that are unpredictable and may react to your presence. They don't give a shiny shit about your right to wander all over the pretty countryside, letting your toddler pat the fluffy animals or your dogs right to drop a turd wherever he feels like it. The farmer is not here to facilitate your day out in the country, and doesn't give a flying fuck if you're scared because a cow looked at you. If you cannot accept this, then kindly fuck off back to town and take your rubbish and bullshit with you. Ta muchly."

Oh i’ll Tell you more that you won’t believe either for Christ knows what reason. We (as in my family) had a mare in foal chased round a field by a dog and when she tried to escape she jumped the gate. Well her front legs did, her belly didn’t clear it and she landed on the gate, buckling it and and getting stuck. The dog got her, had a real chomp on her back legs until she’s managed to find her footing and get herself off the gate and up into the yard. We know all this because we had CCTV. I can tell who owned the dog. I can even tell you the dogs name if you must know every detail. Both mare and foal survived.

StreetwiseHercules Wow!! That is some exceptional level of crazy right there.

If farmers are so awful, do you avoid financing their awfulness - perhaps you have a self sufficient smallholding? oh wait that would make you a farmer

Ywbu but I understand why.

I was walking my dog across unfamiliar countryside once, got a bit stuck walking around in circles etc, and a collie appeared. Barked quite insistently, walking ahead, checking I was following. Once I felt confident I was on the right pathx I offered a treat. The collie refused. And carried on leading me, until I was actually on the proper main path and then, finally accepted the treat. The training, the self restraint! Working dogs are quite amazing.

I think it is far more of a rare occurrence than is suggested by farmers.

1. I’m not a farmer. I have no skin in the game.
2. so you admit it happens, if rare? So why doubt it happens when I said it did?

There are probably grants available and normally money is more than enough to motivate farmers.

Where I am farmers can only claim up to a quarter of the cost of stiles and gates that they have to have for allowing public access.

It would appear to be common knowledge that the local farmer removes/disguises right of way markers so people do not use the land. Then of course when one wanders off path looking for the darn stile because the sign is missing said farmer appears shouting obscenities. Quite unpleasant.

However that said I can understand some people don't quite understand that working farms are not zoo's.......

@StreetwiseHercules And your "thoughts" are based on what, exactly?

People should not have to sell their land just because a tiny part of it has public access and some people can't be trusted to behave appropriately and respectfully. We had all sorts of problems - gates left open, horses let out, people using fields to have picnics (with rubbish left behind) or as a place to play ball with their dogs (oblivious of the livestock they were hitting their ball towards with a cricket bat). The landowner eventually put up a mesh fence which sectioned off the path from the rest of the land and understandably so, but boy were there complaints - notably from the worst offenders who thought footpath rights = rights to the entire field. It's a right of way, not a right of view or a right to use adjoining land.

Somebody thinks they have the right to enter my private property, and give my horses brussel sprouts, potato peelings and apples, I've even had another total arsehole trying to feed grass cuttings. Feeding people's livestock crap can lead to death of the animal by impacted colic, or poisoning. I do often wish the townies would piss off back to the town, stop trespassing on my property, and stop trying to kill my animals.

*this is not to stereotype all farmers.
I have spent much time in the country side and this particular individual was the only horrid one I have encountered.

But I do hope at farmers can at least see that public footpaths are allowed to be used by anyone, including townies, who have no idea wether you’re dogs are safe enough.

Oh yay! Another townie telling people who love and work in the country how things are supposed to be done.

You’ve accepted you were in the wrong. Probably best to stop trying to put the blame on the farmer.

Semper what a lovely story!

Alan Partridge was right about farmers

Alan Partridge is not meant to be taken seriously. His views are supposed to be cringeworthy. He's a parody of a kind of thoughtless, reactionary fool......

..... actually, never mind. I see why you

“2) so you admit it happens, if rare? So why doubt it happens when I said it did?”

I did not say that I doubt it happens.

I see why you relate to his views.

@StreetwiseHercules

I can see fro your posts that you will never see that a farmer or landowner may be a reasonable person, not that they could have a valid point of view, so perhaps I am wasting my time. But, nevertheless, I shall try.

In response to your post- perhaps more people accessing land could act in a responsible and sensible manner? Those things I have pointed out should not "come with owing land". They are examples of individuals behaving irresponsibly and in some case displaying utter stupidity, which puts themselves and/or others and/or livestock in danger. I should not, and do not, accept that this "comes with being a landowner".

I agree farmers and landowners should not try to put people off accessing rights of way. But I am saying that, because of my experiences, that I can understand why they may be tempted to do so. I am also aware that some would do so even if every single person who crossed their land behaved impeccably. However, most would be less tempted if they had fewer problems.

I can assure you that even when the correct "infrastructure" is in place that a fair few people can still be utterly stupid. For example in the summer I had a very irate father march up to me and declare "my daughter was trying to feed the ponies in that field and she was hurt by the electric fence. etc etc ". This despite the following: 1) the field with said ponies not being on the public right of way; 2) there being signs up asking that the ponies are not fed (when signs should not be needed as not only should you never feed livestock that does not belong to you, the field in question is not one through which the right of way passes); 3)there are also signs warning that fencing is electric fencing (despite the point above which means that they had no reason to be near this fencing and so fencing should be superfluous).

Why should people be able to wander into the yard and poke about? Or the sheep pens? Neither are on the public right of way. What part of that is reasonable or acceptable? And why on earth would you think it reasonable that people interfere with livestock?

As to the dogs in the particular case: the dogs were barking. They did not approach OP or her dog, nor did they growl or make any attempt to attack OP or her dog. They were not "out of control" as far as we can tell.

“Oh yay! Another townie telling people who love and work in the country how things are supposed to be done.”

That country mindset is party of the problem. I live in the countryside.

I did not say that I doubt it happens.

No. You know it does happen. You said yourself. You think it’s rare. So that’s an admission that it does happen. You clearly don’t pay much attention to local news if you live in the country and haven’t heard about sheep worrying.

One cannot appropriate being a country person merely by living in the countryside.

It's like me moving to Spain and claiming to be Spanish. Even if I learnt to speak Spanish and observed Spanish culture, I'm still not Spanish.

The very fact you are trying to trying to claim dog on sheep attacks are rare suggests you don't exactly have your finger on the rural pulse.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45075534

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/21/dog-attacks-sheep-10-times-worse-feared-figures-show/

If nothing else free ranging dogs disturb ground nesting birds, birds like lapwings that are in decline because of predators.