Farmers dogs on public footpath

[Cuppateeee]

Just been on a lovely walk in the countryside, only to be spoiled by a shouty farmer. Need a different perspective on it otherwise it will just wind me up. Will include picture.

Walking with my dog on a lead through a field, staying on the public footpath when I see two border collies barking in the distance. I stay where I am to look for a farmer to check if they are aggressive or not, no one in sight, they are staying where they are but still barking and in the way of where I need to walk, so I went back and walked down the other side of the fence.

I get to the bottom and see the dogs have gone, also notice the gate was open so they could have got to me anyway, never mind I’m there now and go over the stile back onto the public footpath.

Only then I notice the dogs have come back, so again I check to see if I can see the farmer because whilst they weren’t growling they were barking which is intimidating enough.

At this point there is a fence between us so not a problem but I check to see where the public footpath leads and you’re supposed to join the farm track but their gate is open. The dogs are following me and my dog down the fence, still barking, so I decided to walk away from them not wanting to risk what would happen when we reach the open gate. I am at this point on the farmers field.

After a few steps a farmer comes running shouting for my attention, I stop and see what he wants. He said ‘the footpath doesn’t go along there, you’re damaging the crops’. So he was clearly watching me, and would have been able to see that I was uncomfortable with his dogs around.

There is snow on the field so I wasn’t sure what I was walking on but either way I said, sorry I appreciate that but your dogs were being aggressive towards me and my dog so I felt I had no choice.

He kept repeating that if I can’t stick to the path then I shouldn’t go on the walk, which in normal circumstances I totally agree with, but in this case I felt it best, to protect me and my dog.

He insists his dogs are not aggressive, they are with him at this point, still barking but I admit not growling or coming closer, just staying with him, but I said again that I was not to know this and didn’t want to risk anything happening to my dogs.

In the end I walked away because he clearly could not see my point of view.

So was IBU waking on his land or was he. And if he was is there anything I can do to stop if happening to someone else. Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.

Our dogs bark 'in a threatening manner' an awful lot though, but none of them have ever hurt anyone in over 30 years.

Their whole purpose is to bark, they control our sheep, they alert us to intruders (both human and non human). Our dogs are the rural equivalent of the neighbourhood watch.

Our sweetest, most placid dog is a Kelpie Collie cross. But if someone strange comes into the farm yard she will bark her head off until she is satisfied they are supposed to be there. She looks like a cross between a wolf and a puma and more than once on a dark night she has scared the living daylights out of me creeping up to see what I'm doing.

I am therefore in no doubt that she often terrifies the various walkers that occasionally stumble through our farmyard, but she is an excellent sheep dog and a wonderful friend to our very physically isolated family.

I don't think you were being unreasonable in the slightest and I'd do the same thing. Also, I thought it was now and offense for dogs to behave in a way that might make you think it's going to hurt you. I wouldn't like two unattended barking dogs at all (I have dogs).

Blueslippers totally agree that farmers are entitled to do whatever they like with their land. What I think is a bit unfair on this thread, is a couple of posters sneering at Greensleeves and demanding a description of said bovine charger and questioning her account if she doesn't produce an acceptable recounting of the incident.

No sneering taking place unbearable just a scepticism that farmers have unfortunately had to adopt in the face of increased hostility from all kinds of corners.

I don't doubt for one moment that Greensleeves had a scary encounter with a bovine. I've had many myself, they are big scary, powerful creatures. But unless the bull was a dairy bull then it's unlikely a law was broken.

I don't don't doubt Greensleeves made a statement, I don't doubt that the farmer wasn't given advice by the police to try and make sure that he didn't put dangerous bulls on a footpath. But that doesn't mean that there was actually a dangerous bull on a footpath.

Greensleves reluctance to provide more details makes me suspect that this wasn't a dangerous dairy bull encounter and more likely an over excited bullock attempting to play.

You can understand the farming community's compulsion to defend themselves when we currently feel constantly under attack? In the last week a Facebook group has been inciting people to actively intimidate and harass dairy farming families at home, they have published names and addresses and how to access the farm 'legally' to film and put up leaflets.

You don't doubt it? Not for a moment? Not even when you were asking me what colour the ugly fucker was and saying it was "bullshit"?

Pull the other one, it's got cow bells on.

You sneered, you accused me of being a liar and of letting my toddler "roam free" in a field, and you made it pretty obvious that you don't actually think members of the public should exercise their right to use public rights of way at all.

And then you bleated about farming having a PR problem.

Farming is the most subsidised industry in human history. I have never met a poor farmer.

Farmers have an immense privilege in owning large swathes of the countryside (very cheaply) and being able to earn their living from it.

Ownership of land does not preclude farmers from the law or provide unrestricted benefits with an absence of responsibility in terms facilitating lawful and responsible public access to land.

Farmers behave irresponsibly routinely, planting animal traps in woodland areas close to their farms which they do not own. (I destroy these when I find them).

Farmers are notorious for persecuting wildlife, believe their countryside exists purely to self agriculture. They poison birds of prey, trap and kill wild mammals, oppose species reintroduction and think it is a reasonable thing to do to shoot crows.

Farmers are poor at maintaining fences around their fields and livestock, often allowing livestock to wander into roads, into woodlands and into public areas.

Almost always they are rude and exhibit territorial behaviours.

Farmers themselves in my experience believe the countryside code exists for their benefit but does not apply to them.

Farmers have been known to threaten to shoot dogs and people. I would not allow farmers to keep firearms.

Alan Partridge was right about farmers.

This is completely meaningless.
A 'bull' is quite easy to detect

🙄 yes, of course it is. All fields are flat, open and with no obstructions to visibility at all. No one has ever unexpectedly come across livestock in a field because they are always perfectly visible at all times and from all approaches. Obviously I imagined the times this has not been the case when walking my dog.

So much fucking idiocy in one post. I think that wins a prize for dumbest shit ever posted on MN (and that is saying something).

Actually op I think a lot of people in your situation would have done the same as you, despite what they are saying. It’s common sense to give barking dogs a wide bearth.

Farmers have been known to threaten to shoot dogs and people.

Farmers have been known to actually shoot dogs. There allowed to shoot dogs that worry livestock on their land.

You sound clueless.

I said I wouldn't let my toddler roam free... I wouldn't. Cows and toddlers terrify me. I don't let them anywhere near. Toddlers are unpredictable and loud which us exactly what cows hate.

I asked you to provide a description of the bull that attacked you, you couldn't/wouldn't. That's fine, but you can see why that raises questions. Dairy bulls are dangerous and are usually quite distinctive. Beef bulls rarely can be arsed to move their fat arses and it's very rare they attack. It would be quite easy for most farmers to distinguish which was which from a basic description. If you were attacked by a dairy bull then I would fully support you reporting it to anyone possible. Most farmers won't even risk having dairy bulls on the farm anymore. That's why a description is important.

I still don't believe the police actually took it seriously which is what the bullshit comment referred to. I'm sure they fobbed you off that they investigated, but the top and bottom of it is they probably placated you, and put the fear of god into the farmer about a crime he hadn't actually committed.

Read my posts again.

@StreetwiseHercules good luck ever eating again then.

farmers shooting dogs is lawful in very particular circumstances. The threat is their “go-to” at all times because they like metaphorically flexing their muscles.

The number of dog attacks on livestock is wildly exaggerated. By farmers. It’s really not that common.

Midnite which post? You don't refer?

“@StreetwiseHercules good luck ever eating again then.”

Oh, did I say I was boycotting farm produce? No, I didn’t.

Eating doesn’t mean I need to like or respect farmers.

Scrowy I've lived in the country for 20 years but not convinced I'd know what constitutes a dairy or beef bull? I think you are flexing your knowledge muscles knowing full well that neither the OP or Greensleeves would know the answer to that. If she said it was a big brown bull are you any more likely to take her seriously?

Eating doesn’t mean I need to like or respect farmers.

Wow!!

“Being kept from deaths door doesn’t mean I have to like or respect paramedics/doctors/the NHS”

You really are an idiot.

And yes, dogs do worry livestock. We (not me, I’m not a farmer, but local area) had so many sheep and lamb losses last spring due to dogs it was horrific.

“We (not me, I’m not a farmer, but local area) had so many sheep and lamb losses last spring due to dogs it was horrific.”

I doubt that.

I'm also not sure that whether the law was broken in this given instance, the point is she was scared and didn't know there was a bull in the field. There's a big bull near us, I will dig out a picture, he's got huge bollocks and a ring through his nose. Pretty damn sure he's a bull and not a Bullock. I wouldn't dream of entering the field if I thought he was in there but the field is huge, has woods in it and a big dip so if you started off at one end you might not know until you were too close to do anything. There is no sign on the gate. He's black - Hereford?

I doubt that.

😂😂😂

You can doubt whatever you like. The sheep were killed by dogs.

Like is say, I have my doubts about what you are saying.

OP

I think your idea that they need signs up informing you the dogs might bark is a decidedly odd and highly impractical. Where would they put these signs, for a start?

We have had so many problems with walkers and people who just don't know what to do (and some who wouldn't care, even if they did). We did have signs up (not about dogs barking), but it made no difference most of the time. Utter waste of time and money, TBH.

There are some farmers who try to obstruct right of ways, or at least don't try to keep them clear when they should. As in anything, not everyone is responsible and fair but I do think the majority are. I know some have just got so fed up with the issues caused that they make life as difficult as possible for people to use the paths, without actually breaking any laws/rules, so as to minimise this.

We have a public right of way running through/round the edge of our land. It can be a nightmare, so whilst I don't condone breaking the law by obstructing access I do understand why some farmers try to put people off.

I think I've said on here before about finding random strangers wondering around the yard looking at the horses, or at the sheep pens. We have had people put small toddlers IN the pen with the lambs and ewes as they're "cute". Similarly, putting them IN the fields. The ewes aren't so cute though, and could harm an adult, never mind a small child. These parents never seem to appreciate having this pointed out to them and act like they have a right to snoop about as "it's nice for the children". We aren't a petting zoo and I don't think most people would like it much if I wandered into your garden or house and started poking about.

Other examples we have had (and more than once): trying to get in with the mares and foals to "pat the cute foal", forgetting there is a very protective mare there too. People feeding the animals, despite signs asking them not to do so. We have had gates left open and rubbish (including dirty nappies) dumped; complaints when dogs chased or children bitten by livestock that they had no reason to be anywhere near/feeding; or if dog/person come off worst in a tussle with the electric fencing. Again, signs warning that fencing is electric and fencing not blocking any right of way (though also should be obvious it is electric fencing because of it's appearance and the noise it makes). If you understand that, you may understand why some farmers/landowners are not keen on people accessing their land. It's not right or perhaps fair to the reasonable majority, but it is a huge hassle and so people try to avoid it.

You’re literally calling me a liar here streetwise. No idea why you find it so hard to believe. I have no reason at all to lie. They weren’t my sheep. It wasn’t my land. Wasn’t my dog. I am unconnected to it other than I live in the area.

@minisoksmakehardwork If someone is upset by "unknown barking dogs" then they're best off avoiding footpaths in rural areas where there are likely to be working dogs who bark. That's what working dogs do, it's part of their job, it's what they're trained to do. It's not part of a programme of intimidation to scare people away from using rights of way.

@StreetwiseHercules

"I doubt that" Oh really? You've never heard of stressed ewes going into premature labour and losing the lamb(s)? What fucking planet are you on? It's precisely because of situations like this that farmers are entitled - by law - to shoot any dog bothering livestock. Sometimes it's a damn shame they can't shoot the owners as well.

Jack's that sounds horrendous!