Farmers dogs on public footpath

[Cuppateeee]

Just been on a lovely walk in the countryside, only to be spoiled by a shouty farmer. Need a different perspective on it otherwise it will just wind me up. Will include picture.

Walking with my dog on a lead through a field, staying on the public footpath when I see two border collies barking in the distance. I stay where I am to look for a farmer to check if they are aggressive or not, no one in sight, they are staying where they are but still barking and in the way of where I need to walk, so I went back and walked down the other side of the fence.

I get to the bottom and see the dogs have gone, also notice the gate was open so they could have got to me anyway, never mind I’m there now and go over the stile back onto the public footpath.

Only then I notice the dogs have come back, so again I check to see if I can see the farmer because whilst they weren’t growling they were barking which is intimidating enough.

At this point there is a fence between us so not a problem but I check to see where the public footpath leads and you’re supposed to join the farm track but their gate is open. The dogs are following me and my dog down the fence, still barking, so I decided to walk away from them not wanting to risk what would happen when we reach the open gate. I am at this point on the farmers field.

After a few steps a farmer comes running shouting for my attention, I stop and see what he wants. He said ‘the footpath doesn’t go along there, you’re damaging the crops’. So he was clearly watching me, and would have been able to see that I was uncomfortable with his dogs around.

There is snow on the field so I wasn’t sure what I was walking on but either way I said, sorry I appreciate that but your dogs were being aggressive towards me and my dog so I felt I had no choice.

He kept repeating that if I can’t stick to the path then I shouldn’t go on the walk, which in normal circumstances I totally agree with, but in this case I felt it best, to protect me and my dog.

He insists his dogs are not aggressive, they are with him at this point, still barking but I admit not growling or coming closer, just staying with him, but I said again that I was not to know this and didn’t want to risk anything happening to my dogs.

In the end I walked away because he clearly could not see my point of view.

So was IBU waking on his land or was he. And if he was is there anything I can do to stop if happening to someone else. Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.

We wouldn't have if we'd known he was there!

I'm sorry Greensleeves but I just can't picture the scene. A lone bull appeared from nowhere?

Please stay out of the country op. You don't know what you're doing.

all the farmers I know that have been hurt by cattle have been hurt in small spaces, close to gates/hurdles/fences they could have easily jumped over if they had enough warning to grab a toddler and run.

From a personal point of view there is absolutely no way I would have been letting a toddler roam free in a field with cattle in it. I think this is the point a lot of people miss - you have a right of way through a field, not a right to behave like you are in your own back garden.

Farmland is a work place, treat it as you would a building site not a playground.

I just can't picture the scene. A lone bull appeared from nowhere?

Are all fields round your way completely flat and open?

It's hardly surprising you can't "picture the scene", as I haven't offered a description of the scene . It wasn't necessary to provide a geographical description complete with flora and fauna (bull notwithstanding) and a rundown of the weather conditions.

There was woodland surrounding both gates, and a slope.

@BrightYellowDaffodil, I understand what happened but given the op was clearly shaken by unknown barking dogs, it wasn't out of the realms of possibility that the farmer didn't care that his dogs were coming across as intimidating, otherwise he might have been straight out and closed the gate. So he insists (rightfully) on op using footpath. And in future op just doesn't use that route.

Eventually the footpath isn't used anymore because the dogs are always barking at people walking on it (imo they should be used to that) and the farmer requests that its designation as public footpath is removed.

It's no wonder so many public footpaths are disappearing from OS maps.

Our farm collies can clear a 5 barred gate, scale 6’ fences and jump 9’ ditches. You should have stuck to the path, I appreciate that barking dogs can be intimidating, but could be worse, our neighbouring farmer shoots on sight any dog he spots not on the footpath and he is within his rights to do so.

Are all fields round your way completely flat and open? Usually yes. Bulls in fields are not common now due to AI.

I'm not sure where the "toddler roaming free" came from, either. He was walking with his dad, holding his hand. We stick to footpaths.

@JenniferJareau Can you not see though how this could even be the slightest bit intimidating, especially when past experiences tell you that they could nip, especially as I had my dog with me.

No. You decided to walk on farm land. Hence you would expect to come across working dogs as well as other animals such as cows and sheep.

Those dogs didn't growl at you, they didn't attack you; they barked as you were a stranger on their land.

I do understand this, so am happy to be told, but what else was I to do, especially when it could have been so easily solved by the farmer just closing his gate.

I've never known a normal gate to stop a fit collie dog. Over, through, under, usually over. Plus, the gate will have been open for a reason and farmers don't want to be bobbing up and down shutting gates for walkers every 5 minutes.

For future reference OP, yes, stick to the path. If you cannot stick to the path, turn around. I've had plenty of dogs come running and barking at me. Ignoring them usually works. Just keep walking purposefully and don't engage with them or shout "hello poppet" at a particularly irritating terrier until it gives in and wags its tail at you but I'm odd like that

Are all fields round your way completely flat and open?

Usually yes.

News flash: they aren't everywhere.

It's really hard isn't it.

I can completely see how farm/working animals can seem intimidating to non farming people because they don't always behave in the way people think they should do. Farm dogs in particular aren't pets, they are a member of the workforce. They don't behave like pet dogs but that doesn't make them dangerous.

You just need to look at these two threads to see how important the farm dog is

thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/mans-best-friend.19885/

thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-farm-dog.170/

Farming has a massive PR problem currently. Through fairly impressive vegan campaigning and a detachment from food production in general the public seem to think we are the baddies most of the time.

I don't know how to change that other than trying to debunk some of the nonsense that cones up on mumsnet every now and then. But most farmers if you speak to them will be more than happy to chst to you and discuss things.

My sister has a collie. I’m just trying to imagine her encountering a closed gate and rethinking her objective. Nope. Would. Not. Happen. Wouldn’t even slow her down.

Much like many terraced houses have right of way over each other's gardens to put bins out. Doesn't stop your neighbour from letting their dog out into their garden, but the neighbours may choose not to walk through it whilst it's out.

No, this is wrong. You cannot block access and that would include letting an apparently aggressive dog intimidate people into not using the access. If access is blocked then the person can go around the blockage, in this case intimidating barking dogs.

You stick to the path that's the law - the dogs barking isn't being aggressive, it's doing their job protecting the land. We've encountered farm dogs often and if you talk to them usually they will come up for a pat and even interact with my dog.

News flash: they aren't everywhere. This is completely meaningless.
A 'bull' is quite easy to detect. But it might not have been a bull. it might have been a bullock. Who knows.

You missed the point naturalbornwoman. I never said the dog in the neighbours garden was aggressive, just that the presence of a dog may lead some neighbours to not go through the garden at that particular time.

In those circumstances they would be exercising normal precautions according to their own concerns/fears etc. Yet people expect working farmland to be clear of any percieved dangers because there is a 'public footpath'.

These rights of way were never intended to be a network of public footpaths for all and sundry, just a means if getting to B from A for local people trying to attend work, church and school.

It's a collision of expectations.

I think the lack of patience on the farmers part is probably because he constantly has to deal with these issues.

Our farm has a public footpath through, I've had families enjoying a picnic in my garden, seen people using our walls/fields as a public toilet and bumped into people letting their dogs run off lead in fields full of stock. It's beyond frustrating!

Isn't it strange that lots of dog owners think it's fine for their dog to bark on their own premises ie house or garden. ("He is letting us know theres somebody about see"). But a dog owner cannot fathom how a working dog can bark at a "trespasser" on his land.

A public right of way is a path that goes through farming land. Anyone taking a short cut through farm land can expect to meet livestock and other farm animals.

Again, the dogs barked. You were on their property. They hurt nobody. Another load of scaremongering nonsense. As others have said if the Collies had any thought of attacking, a closed farm gate wouldn't have stopped them.

If you were walking off the footpath and trampling the farmers land he had every right to be pissed off with you.

From the horse and hound forum over a similar issue but from the landowners POV

Dogs should not be allowed to intimidate path users such that passage along the route is effectively prevented.
Behaviour that constitutes a public nuisance includes snarling, barking in a threatening manner, running around and jumping up.
While dogs are allowed on enclosed land adjacent to the Public Right of Way, if their behaviour is deemed to be a nuisance, the landowner will be asked to alter the situation to stop this.
It is illegal for a dog known to be dangerous to be allowed to roam at large on a highway, which includes a Public Right of Way.
If a dog causes an injury, the owner/handler may be liable if the animal’s dangerous character had been previously known.
Guard dogs are only allowed at a dwelling house or on agricultural land but are not permitted to cause a public nuisance (Guard Dogs Act, 1975).
A notice warning that a guard dog is present must be situated at each entrance.''

Read more at forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/dogs-and-public-footpaths-through-private-property.658106/#VqUWkZmqjYS6A5Qa.99

I'm surrounded by farms etc and am very careful where I walk but I do think a couple the farmers on here are being quite patronizing. The poster who was confronted by a bull - let's face it they're fairly easy to distinguish - must have been pretty scared.

I went running through a field the other day with my dog, had a good look as I entered said field as it often has Charolais (big bastard cattle by any standards) (apologise for sp if wrong) in but all clear, ran a couple of hundred years across the middle of it and to my horror a herd of cattle came loping out from the hedge (hidden gate) with a quad bike guiding them. I have never turned 360 so quickly in my life and hot footed it the way back I'd come. If I'd been a few more yards into the field I would have been right in their path and yes there was a bull, cows and calves which are arguably even more dangerous. I couldn't have even rolled or climbed over the fencing as it was sheep fencing and in very good condition so impossible to climb or slip under. I was 100% on the footpath at all times. It happens and can be really frightening.

Unbearablecollies. Yes I gave been chased by a herd of cows, with calves, too. It is very frightening. But I don't expect the farmer to not use his land for his animals, in preference that I can use the pathway through his land, as a short cut.

One farm I came across had a notice in thick red writing - Any dogs found on this land will be shot! Not even any mention of dogs off lead. It just goes to show the number of idiots who pass through farm lands and allow their dogs to chase and kill livestock.

I have to agree, in part, with the dog haters of MN. There are some clueless, selfish, dog owners out there. I also realise that there are some great dog owners out there, who take great care to train their dogs not to be a nuisance. Dog owners cannot all be lumped together, under one umbrella. It's the useless dog owners that cause problems for everyone.

But I do hope at farmers can at least see that public footpaths are allowed to be used by anyone, including townies, who have no idea wether you’re dogs are safe enough.

It's not the farmers job to make sure you know the protocols of accessing a field. Nor is it his job to personally welcome everyone who wants to traipse over his property and assure them that his dogs are friendly.