To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

There's no what if the other side is correct because all evidence points towards vaccines working.
Infant mortality has dropped significantly whenever childhood vaccinations have been introduced (along other types of medical care).

But by all means, let's go back to having children dying from preventable illnesses.

I'll try reply to everyone I just didn't expect so many post even though it is a 'hot' topic... Even more than I expected really 🙂

YABU. Our ability to diagnose and identify disorders such as ADHD and Autism has improved. They were still there before but unidentified. That quirky kid in your class growing up? Probably had Autism. The one you went home and told Mum was always being naughty? Probably ADHD.

The complications of illnesses in people who have not been vaccinated- take Measles for example include liver damage (hepatitis), meningitis, encephalitis, vision loss, heart and nervous system damage or even death. All of these are more devastating long term than ADHD or Autism (and I speak as a Headteacher for a school full of children with ADHD and Autism)

No you are wrong and from what your post you don't understand about science, research, hearsay or rumour really work. Thank goodness we've put things in place so children coming out of schools tomorrow will have a much better way to understand how to make good judgements about the world.

I think many children who these days get an ASD or ADHD diagnosis would be referred to as "difficult", "naughty" or "weird" in the "old days". Teachers in my family (with careers spanning 50+ years) don't feel that the cohorts they teach have significantly changed, only that there is a formal terminology for it now.

OP
Don't bother replying.
Just do some proper research. This isn't really a matter of opinion among people who aren't educated about health.

Unless you're also a flat earthed, in which case we might as well give up on you.

Ds has sensory processing issues and a couple of other challenges. School have been amazing and supportive and helpful. However, he presents in a way that, when I was a child, would have had him accused of being difficult or stupid.

I clearly have minor sensory processing issues myself. But I was simply told to get on with it. Is that why I chose to spend much of known childhood in my own (controlled) space with a book?

A friend suspects her brother was dyslexic but it just was never picked up so he struggled through high school and never went to university
. ....

We are better at understanding issues and challe he's today rather than just lumping children into the "diffixuly" "naughty" "stupid " categories.

I didn't get my children vaccinated and they still had ADHD and ASD. I am no longer anti vaccine and have had them caught up with the whole immunisation programme.

Even if the risks were proven (which they’ve been discredited) your honestly honestly saying you’d sooner your child died than have autism?
That’s the truth of it.
That’s why it gets heated and open discussion gets shut down.
I believe the autism rise is down to diagnosis and recognition. When I was at school no one was diagnosed unless you were severe and would need alternative schooling. Looking back I can think of a few children who would be diagnosed now.

As for being a big pharma company conspiracy, surely they’d make more money out of sick people then prevention?

The other anger issue is the poor kids who can’t be vaccinated, currently protected by herd immunity. Every chosen non-vaccine puts them more at risk. So I can see why they get angry, they don’t even have that choice.

I think it's much more about poor food, parents struggling with the cost of living and working long hours, absent fathers fucking off and leaving single mothers to keep a roof over their heads, technology, lack of exercise, too much pressure in school because nowadays people who leave school with no qualifications end up in shit minimum wage jobs with poor terms and conditions.

Go back to my childhood - mum and dad left school with no qualifications but got a council house. Mum stayed home with us for first few years so we got to walk to school, come home for lunch if we wanted, play outside after school. School holidays we were put out the door and only came home for meals. Sweets once a week, lemonade on birthdays. Simple meals with potatoes and veg albeit with shit processed burgers / sausages etc as well as normal meat. Nearby grandparents.

When I look at the life my DC have it's astonishing the difference. Better in some ways, worse in others.

My dad is clearly autistic. It really impacts his ability to identify his needs. It's more obvious now he is frail. He doesn't like the oxygen tubes so refuses to have it even though it means he suffers more. This is just one of many way his asd creates challenges.

I've googled this area, that of the elderly and asd. Because we're only just getting on top of it, rather than just seeing it as people being odd-bods, there currently isn't much research into old age and autism.

Dad isn't diagnosed but I have 3dc wirh Aspergers and similar issues to him.

And when you read the research note opinions on which vaccines available are worth taking or not, and by which groups of people.

Look for example at how malaria vaccines have been tried and tested and all the criticism about the one that gives a little bit of protection.
Look at the controversy about TB vaccination. Real scientific controversy. See how that translates into guidelines based on risk/benefit assessment.
Contrast those with the well received childhood vaccinations that were introduced in health programmes.
Then let me know if scientists really don't ask important questions.
The what ifs are being posed and tested all the time by people who know what they're doing and don't just hazard uneducated guesses.

As for being a big pharma company conspiracy, surely they’d make more money out of sick people then prevention?

Exes dad thought vaccines caused autism. He also though autism didn't exist and was made up by Pharma to make money. I did point out the contradiction 😂

Modern day natural selection.

Those like the OP - and their unfortunate offspring - will die of fully preventable diseases like measles and polio.

Sadly they’ll also, in their selfishness, wipe out the immunocompromised children whose parents wanted to vaccinate them but couldn’t.

The reason I post on these threads is because it scares the crap out of me the way society denigrates experts. We're posting on technology that was made possible by experts, by people being logical and thinking critically. And yet so many are able to wave away so much science.

I’m early 80s child myself too op. I see what you mean, but there is one kid from my class who I’m convinced now would have adhd. He’s probably not diagnosed, and from what I can see on social media is settled and happy. I never saw him after school, but he worked with a friend and the whole company had never experienced anyone with his ‘energy’ before.
People didn’t used to get diagnosed with cancer/diabetes etc as often back Then either, because the knowledge, science and diagnosis wasn’t as advanced.
I think it’s just advances in medicine and knowledge that progress parallel, and can be misunderstood to be linked. Links have been disproven.

Disclaimer
I haven’t read all the replies on this thread, because it gets heated, and I won’t be coming back, because I’m not feeling my strongest today.

I'll try reply to everyone I just didn't expect so many post even though it is a 'hot' topic... Even more than I expected really

The conspiracy theories you are recklessly promulgating will take us back to a time when children died of measles, were paralysed for life by polio, and when whole families were wiped out by TB.

The posters here are trying to combat your stupidity because it is dangerous.

Just because there is an increase in one thing and a simultaneous increase in something else does not mean that either causes the other. There are a great number of conditions which have been diagnosed more frequently in the last 50 years but for some reason people would rather believe that the reason for some of these improvements in diagnosis of these conditions is down to vaccinations. They choose to believe this rather than realising that the medical profession has advanced and is no longer run exclusively by old fashioned men who believed that behavioural problems in children are simply poor parenting (presumably on their mother’s part) rather than actual neurological neurological conditions.

We are not talking about conditions like broken arms or head injuries which should have been obvious 50-100 years ago. We are talking about conditions which are, even nowadays, hard to diagnose and difficult to understand, much less treat. The evolution of medical science and therefore the medical profession is far more responsible for the increases in these diagnoses, yet I rarely see people who refuse to see a doctor when they’re ill on the off chance that it might mean they get diagnosed with something rare and unheard of. Advances in medical science (ie vaccines, better diagnostic techniques, more open mindedness as to the scope of neurological (and other) conditions) may well increase the the number of diagnoses made. That does not equate to the medical profession being responsible for or even causing those conditions. And even if we enter another universe and assume it does, is it really worth risking your child developing a potentially fatal illness because you’re slightly afraid that they might get something else that’s not immediately life expectancy reducing? Imagine spending your whole life terrified whenever you hear of a case of measles or imagine Polio making a comeback. Autism, ADHD, Aspergers... They don’t seem so frightening now do they if it means your baby isn’t going to die a horrible, painful, preventable death? Or is what you’re really saying that those who have these disorders might as well be dead? Did you mean to be so rude?

Well said Lucyloulee

Also interesting choice of topic for your first ever posts OP 🤔

I wonder if the increase in people who feel like they are qualified to question science is also linked to vaccines.

I'm in my 50s so was a child at a time when vaccinations were standard. There was little diagnosis of ASD etc, unless there was an underlying learning disability. 50 years later, vaccinations are still routine, but much more diagnosis of ASD, ADHD etc. The jabs themselves are likely to be safer than when I was a child. If anything, then, this shows to me the jabs are nothing to do with it, but other factors are at play such as improved diagnosis etc.

All that info comes from interview I read online. I'm asking for opinions and experiences and thank you for contributing

But you have completely ignored the posts that directly addressed the details of the interview that you provided - they provided a link debunking the no autism in the Amish community, explained that thimerol is NOT used in UK vaccines and pointed out that the doctor in question has some interesting views - which suggests you aren't paying attention to people's opinions if they differ from this interview you found.

If you have any interest in this subject you must read only research from reputable medical science sources. These studies have credibility and are peer reviewed. The exception is the diabolical Andrew Wakefield who conned his way through the system and as a result children have died. You cannot be serious if you think antivaxxers have a point. Go to a country that has little vaccination and see the results

OP, when a thousand scientists say one thing (and publish research proving it), and you dig out and spend your time listening to and posting about the one scientist who says the opposite, it's called "confirmation bias". You're not on the fence and trying to make an informed decision. You've already decided what you want to believe and you're looking for evidence for it.