To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

There is more knowledge of autism etc now. My niece has just been diagnosed. My brother (40yrs) is also getting diagnosed as nobody spotted it when he was young. Guess what? My dad (age65) also has suspected autism and he believes his dad did (who would be about 85 now). All have very strong characteristics running through each generation. I don’t remember anyone being autistic when I was at school. I DO remember how awkward my brother was around crowds though, how he struggled to make friends and was tortured for it etc. All makes sense now.

So it’s rubbish that these conditions are suddenly appearing do to vaccinations. They have always been there but society has only just noticed.

These days teachers are so on ball (not least of all due to extra funding opportunities) that children are coming out of schools with all kinds of anerture diagnosies despite not showing any majorly behavioural or developmental problems.

I find the opposite to be true and that many schools can't/won't help until the child gets a diagnosis, they're also slow to raise issues unless the child in question is at the extreme end of manageable.

*due to

I just want to make this clear that I'm vaccinated, I don't have children yet and I don't know what I would do once I have them. I'm not anti or pro. Just curious.

Some people want to see a spy (Russian even but I'm not 🙂) or anti vaxxer with new tactics 🤔 I have absolutely no agenda. Some people like to copy only part of my post/reply without context and reply to that but that's not the way is it.

All that info comes from interview I read online. I'm asking for opinions and experiences and thank you for contributing 🙂

Here’s more “something”

Do you accept that there is a lot more knowledge of autism etc op?

I think it is okay to query these ideas now and again, but I think if you walk through a old grave yard pre 1900 you see that nearly everyone died of consumption. They just couldn't diagnose anything else.

I remember being at school with boy who was just wild and very angry, it was the 70s and he was put down as a naughty boy. I think he probably struggled with sensory issues and thinking about him makes me feel sad, as he killed himself in his 20s.

Nope. When we were at school children with less obvious autism where just labelled 'the weird kid' and those with ADHD were just 'lively' or 'naughty' an so on. The constant need to diagnose wasn't there, but the children were, which has both positives and negatives.
Vaccinations are absolutely necessary and children should be banned from schools and nurseries without them.

@Zoflorabore

Wow it's a bit insulting to hear parents with autistic children "have a lot to talk about".

Are you replying to me because I've never said that??

Sorry, in Ireland it is 33 different items in the first year now for babies (some of these are boosters)

That is a huge increase in the last few years. I would like to talk about this without being called names. I am pro vaccine, all my children have them. My son has ASD but had it before the vaccine and I too am seeing signs of it in older family members (undiagnosed).

I am just saying that if I raise my hand to ask a question, I am not 'anti vaccinations'at all) there are more than 2 types of people.

Again, thank you for this thread as it's good to talk.

I find the opposite to be true and that many schools can't/won't help until the child gets a diagnosis, they're also slow to raise issues unless the child in question is at the extreme end of manageable

This was our experience. Our concerns about our son were brushed off by school for years so we couldn’t even get a referral. It took him not being able to cope with school and a whole year of his schooling going to shit before we got a referral and diagnosis.

It’s a fact ALL drugs/therapies/vaccinations have risks/side effects

The real issue is risk v benefit

I have chosen to fully vaccinate all my children plus had a few other privately to cover them for additional illnesses
I do worry sometimes about reactions but I know that the actual diseases themselves far more dangerous

Considering ADHD is a neuro biological problem due to the brain having both physiological and anatomical differences. A vaccine can not change a physical structure so you’re wrong and unreasonable.

1. Back in the day a lot of conditions like ADHD/autism etc just weren't diagnosed - a kid was lazy, or naughty, or just a bit different.

2. Back in the day, many children who's conditions were very severe just weren't integrated into society. Until care in the community in the 1980s, for many many children, institutionalisation was seen as the 'best' thing for them to do.

3. There's some evidence that some of these conditions, particularly ADHD, are over diagnosed now as people want a medical explanation for everything. I've worked with kids who were allegedly ADHD but 'grew out of it'. I am unconvinced those kids were ever ADHD. I think they were just bored or reacting to something in their life.

There have been loads of studies done which show there is no evidence that most of these conditions are increasing. Asthma and allergies are, which has got some link to overly sterile home environments (parents who bleach everything, don't let their kids outside) but that is very different to vaccines. No one is better off for having TB.

Wait, maybe the OP is onto something. In fact, we should ban vaccination for children completely. In fact, for all illnesses, including travelling abroad to countries where they have malaria, yellow fever, ebola etc. That would be the perfect solution, right?

Oh, you don't want us to do that? Why would that be, I wonder.

I don’t believe there is a rise in many of those disorders just a heightened awareness and diagnostic ability.

But the prevalence of various diseases changes over time. There is a massive reduction in many infectious diseases due to vaccination but has been a rise is all sorts of other things. That includes the changing prevalence of adult conditions like cancers.

The enviromemtal factors at play are HUGE.

Toxins from food, cleaning products, industry.... the list is endless.
Lifestyle choices like less exercise, technology.

Why leap into vaccination as the cause?
Vaccination has undisputed benefits.

All the crap we pump into our food hasn’t so I’d aim my concern in that direction if I was you.

I hadn’t even heard of conditions such as ASD/ADHD etc until I was almost at school leaving age myself. I remember watching Rain Man and thinking “OMG that’s name of boy who was clearly autistic that the teachers ignored”

There are no vaccines for malaria or ebola, actually.

Op I haven't rtt yet however I need to point out a flaw in your thinking.
On paper there is a large increase in the number of people who have been diagnosed with neurological disorders however this is due to a better understanding of and testing for these disorders.
My family is a classic example:
My DS is autistic and has ADHD,
He has all 3 of the main contributing causes ie blood/oxygen supply issues in the womb , premature birth and most importantly family history(unknown to us at the time)
Both hi father and I struggled at school and in many aspects of life. His father was 10years older and was a " bad boy " nothing else never even tested for anything and ended up in a reform school, its truly sad. He eventually got a diagnosis of ADHD at the age of 46 when our ds was also diagnosed.
I on the other hand went through years of assessments and testing that diagnosed me with dyslexia (which I have) but was misdiagnosed with a PD.
Only when ds was being assessed for asd did anyone ever suggest that I might have it too. I was then assessed and guess what I've got it to.
Having spoken to many experts in the field this a very common occurrence as in years gone by there just wasn't enough understanding of these issues or any form of standard testing its only started to happen in the last couple of decades, though girls still mainly fall through the cracks.
So whilst there appears to be a increase of these disorders in fact we are just better at diagnosing them.
Also I had a dgf who was partially paralysed by polo and a friend whose eldest sister was mentally disabled from her mum catching rubella whilst pregnant!!
Please stop listening to the anti Vaxers.
DON'T PUT YOUR CHILDREN AT RISK FROM THIS

Autism has been around for a long, long time- well before vaccines- whether it was diagnosed or not I believe it was there. Same with ADHD and other neurological disorders.

My own son who’s been diagnosed with both ASD and ADHD was exhibiting signs of autism from when he was a tiny baby. Of course, I didn’t know this at the time but lots of signs were there. ADHD too.

Even if vaccines were to cause these things, I love my boy, the world would be a poorer place without him. I’d rather have a child with ADHD and autism than a child who is dead from something totally preventable.

There isn’t a constant need to diagnose and if you understand what parents have to go through in order to get that diagnosis and the subsequent support then you wouldn’t make crass comments about the “need for diagnosis” but my 10year old has the right to know why his brain works differently rather than just assuming he’s stupid when actually he’s highly intelligent.

I think some of the issues children have now are down to be micromanaged by society. They are constantly being given things to do, all under the watchful eyes of adults who intervene as soon as they have problems.

What does this have to do with conditions such as autism, ADHD, developmental conditions, syndromes etc?

In 1975 1 in 500 children were diagnosed with autism and in 2012 1 in 50 (1 in 30 in boys). 100x more! (We could say a lot of children went undiagnosed before but 100x is massive!).
It’s 10x more, not 100x.

Statistics from countries with high vaccinating countries like USA (2-3 times more vaccinations than Germany, Holland for example) show that number of infant mortality is twice as high as in countries with low vac.
You can’t just take two factors and assume one causes the other, I imagine there are plenty of countries in the world with low vaccinations rates and high infant mortality Also Japan stopped giving the MMR vaccine after it was claimed to cause problems and Japan’s autism rates rose just the same as other developed parts of the world where the vaccine was still given.

Re Andrew Wakefield Now the interesting part. His colleague and coauthor of the publication prof J.A. Walker-Smith sued General Medical Council and won proving that all the evidence against his work was falsified to discredit the link between autism and vaccinations! (Does anyone know anything about it??)
I imagine no one knows anything about this, since it is not true. Walker-Smith (and Andrew Wakefield) were not struck off for claiming MMR causes autism, it was the methods they used being unethical that was the issue (they carried out unnecessary tests on children which the ethics committee at the hospital had not approved - Wakefield had several other serious charges against him proved by the GMC but this was the charge shared by both men) . Walker-Smith won the case against him having behaved unethically, he said that he carried out the tests on the children because he believed they would have a therapeutic benefit to the children. This is totally separate to any opinion on the validity of the research’s claims. It’s also worth saying that when Wakefield published his findings, Walker-smith released a statement confirming his continued support for the government’s position on the MMR vaccine.
This woman you heard interviewed sounds like a complete quack who twists anything to suit her own agenda.

I have a son with ADHD and other issues. Even if it were proven 100% that his conditions are a direct result of the immunizations, I would still have the immunizations. I'd rather have ds1 with all the difficulties and heartache he brings than have lost him to a preventable disease, or for him to be seriously disabled by a preventable disease, or for him to have passed on a preventable disease to a pregnant woman and her baby or to someone who cannot have vaccinations.

And I don't think there is any research to support there being such a link anyway.

It’s so cockeyed to me

I’m terrified of doing something that gives me child an illness
So I won’t vaccinate them
But I will feed them squash and takeaways and spray my house with bleach.