To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow ...exactly!

I feel like people feel threatened just by raising questions by anyone. Why is that honestly?? Why so much aggression and name calling?

because you peddled the tired myth that vaccines cause autism. And we are sick of hearing it. But you'd know that if you bothered to do a search instead of starting yet another vaccines cause autism thread.

God forbid one of your children gets leukaemia and has chemo but desperately wants to go to school to see his friends during the course of his treatment

but he will have been vaccinated long before he got ill so what's the problem?

And presumably, you won't have allowed him to be friends with anyone unvaccinated so what's the problem?

The vast majority of children are vaccinated and the vast majority are no immuno-suppressed.

As someone else said, don't pretend you get vaccinated for the good of society. You do it because it's best for YOUR child(ren). Hate the sanctimonious virtue signalling on here.

And the NHS funds vaccination because it is economically sensible. Much cheaper to prevent disease than treat it (and also saves parents taking time off work to look after sick children).

I don’t have time to pick up every point on that link to Gardasil. But firstly, it’s now being reconsidered whether we should in fact get some sun to prevent cancer - so they are lagging behind already.

You don’t have the capacity or information to unpick each item so generalise and dismiss instead. This is the thing, people make comments that on the surface seem vaguely enlightened which other people then cotton on to as true but there is zero evidence to back up any of it. Where’s the evidence for sun being a cancer preventative? Can I have a link for that please. CRUK have covered this extensively and the NHS have written a response to the studies methodology, and which concludes that Vit D is where the answer lies.
www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/does-sunlight-affect-breast-cancer-risk/

www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/sun-uv-and-cancer/sun-facts-and-evidence

Second, the issues with Gardasil relate to the reporting of adverse events. The concern is that it is linked to POTS which takes a long time to diagnose and initially presents in a non specific way. Thus many families say their chikd’s Illness hasn’t been recorded as a vaccine damage and so statistically, the vaccine seems fine.

This is also untrue. Drugs are not just approved and left to get on with it. There is a phase iv which is designed to determine long term effects. In fact, if a large amount of people reported hospital stays and adverse events after taking any drug, no matter what the length of distribution then it would be picked up. Thalidomide is one well known one. www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/find-a-clinical-trial/what-clinical-trials-are/phases-of-clinical-trials#phase4

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_withdrawn_drugs

I’m laughing at the PP who thinks studies are rigorous enough. Many are incredibly poor
Love this. Where is the T1 link by the way, you’ve been asked 3 times?

I agree that science should not be static. And it isn’t, which is why drug trials and reinvestigative studies exist in the first place. But suggesting that it should all be discounted, just because you don’t personally understand the science is a bit silly. If you’ve got the skills to challenge Gardasil in the lab, or in your own trials, there are research grants available for you to do so. But not many of us do, so we can’t possibly expect to know more than 40+ peer reviewers just because we read something on fb.

Thalidomide is now being investigated as a cancer treatment and i have a link for my statement. Where’s yours?

www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancer-in-general/treatment/cancer-drugs/drugs/thalidomide

There is enough evidence that vaccinations do work. And I think it's interesting that so many people are still questioning the safety of it. And yes, I believe we should.
But, for all the anti vaxers please do a little "time travel" on your research. Look into the small pox vaccine development, and no I don't mean Jenner but a woman called Lady Mary Wortley Montagu.
Makes great reading... and time has told a vaccination success story. (Radio 4 Science Stories also have a program about her.)
There is very little known about the origin of ADHD / ASD/ Autism, so let's not jump to conclusions.

I like how OP refuses to believe that some anti vaxxers think that death is better then their child having ASD. I've seen many anti vaxxers posting that they think an Autistic child is a vegetable. It's a disgusting thing to say and it's 100% wrong. I have an autistic cousin who is amazing at art and he is graphic designer. He also builds computers and is a programmer.

The only thing that's increasing is the cases of preventable disease outbreaks because people are refusing to vaccinate. Ironically most of the anti vaxxers are vaccinated. A lot of schools won't take unvaccinated children so they remain in the echo chamber. A lot of people who haven't been vaccinated go on to get vaccinated when they are legally allowed to.

The reason the cases of ASD is increasing is because they are better at diagnosing. A lot of people are undiagnosed. Please vaccinate your children when you have them. You are risking their life.

Whilst I agree some anti-vaxxers sound a bit crazy, the utter naivety if this blind faith in “science” sounds equally crazy to me. When did we stop questioning anything?!

Science doesn't stop questioning things, that's why it's always changing.

I'm laughing at the thought that my 'blind faith' in science is naive and crazy.

Anti-vax threads and comments should be banned on MN. A lot of what’s being said by the anti-vaxxers on this thread is irresponsible, harmful nonsense.

If people want to question what they see in their community and hear anecdotally I agree it isn’t scientific research. Most scientific research has parameters ie age 18 to 45, etc., so doesn’t automatically include everyone. I know of a young man who was definitely damaged by a vaccine it happened immediately after he was vaccinated for a holiday trip age 3. Now you could argue it was the result of a fever or seizure after the vaccine but the vaccine definitely triggered something in his brain that left him damaged.

I'm not sure that a child that is damaged by the trace amounts of virus in a vaccine is going to be that robust in the face of a full blown onslaught of the disease. Because that's the alternative.

Whilst I agree some anti-vaxxers sound a bit crazy, the utter naivety if this blind faith in “science” sounds equally crazy to me. When did we stop questioning anything?!
Its about asking the right questi9ns, and actually understanding what your reading. Look up Duning Kruger Syndrome, basically too "stupid" to know your being "stupid"
Ie Cathmidston keeps bleating on about Aluminium being a neuro toxin.
She then links to a badly written paper based on long debunked research.
Its clear she hasnt bothered to look up how aluminium can be in a neuro toxin. Ie dose , method of inhilation etc , mechanism of how it damages

The OEM have published a book on adverse events effects and causality of vaccines.Ive linked to it numerous times
It actually looks at the mechanism behind the damage of the disease and also the claimed damage of the vaccine and the research behind it. Even that b9ok was misintepreted by antivaxx sites

Bruffin there are thousands of articles and studies linking aluminium to nervous system damage
www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2014/491316/

But you go ahead and carry on injecting it into yourself and your children ...just don’t try and dictate my choices

Aluminium ingested through diet and inhalation is processed totally differently to that injected

You do kn9w that every day you eat foid you ingest aluminium, and your breastmilk has more aluminium in it than the vaccine

That link has been debunked. The authors Shaw and Tomjalvic (sp)are notorious for very poor research

vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vaccine-ingredients#aluminium

Yes for sure if you cook with aluminium...
but like I said we are designed to deal to a certain extent with toxins in food ... injecting aluminium, not so much

Take the massive rise in Alzheimer’s ....still linked to aluminium in many studies and the jury is still out on the direct link www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21157018

Yes we can do the battle of the links all day
However the fact is that neurological Illnesses are on the rise particularly Alzheimer’s...and no one has any answers.. so to dismiss aluminium when there are numerous studies that do show a link is pretty foolhardy...
But like I keep saying. I don’t try and mandate your health choices so don’t try and dictate mine

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22001122.1

"Aluminium is not used by the body. Any aluminium absorbed from food or other sources is gradually eliminated through the kidneys. Babies are born with aluminium already present in their bodies, probably from the mother’s blood. Over time, small amounts of the aluminium from food, drink and other sources do accumulate in the body, but this is not believed to pose a significant risk to health (see for example this UK research from 2004 ). The view of most experts is that there is currently no convincing evidence that exposure to everyday levels of aluminium in any form increases the risks of Alzheimer’s disease, genetic damage or cancer."

I despair sometimes at the sheer stupidity of people.

1. There is NO evidence whatsoever that suggests a link between vaccines and autism. None! Anecdotal examples are not evidence.
2. There is overwhelming evidence to support the positive effectiveness of vaccines. They absolutely work and have eradicated diseases that used to kill hundreds of thousands of people.
3. There is no increase in people who have autism or adhd it is just diagnosed better. Children with autism back in the 60’s were sent to residential homes and were not integrated into society.

It really is that simple and I’m sorry if my post sounds goady but this really pisses me off.

Also the rise in Alzheimer’s is due to the fact that we are living longer and better diagnoses. Just like a lots of illnesses such as some cancers. No big conspiracy.

Ladyvimes has spoken... we can all relax.. I’ll pass your findings onto the U.K. Alzheimer’s association
www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-us/policy-and-influencing/what-we-think/demography

Injecting really doesnt make a difference in those tiny amounts.Its injected into the muscle not the vein. You really dont get it do you!
The only way a small baby would be affected is long term ie weeks on end intravenous fluid with kidney damage. The only way an adult would be affected is long term exposure in the workplace.

I personally wonder if the parents of these autistic children were vaccinated whilst pregnant ... not to mention of course the initial course of vaccines given to babies.

No vaccines while I was pregnant, DS particular sensory issues have been present since birth (such as inability to feel when he is full, dislike of soft touch and preference for pressure/restriction, dislike of being warm and preference for cold). Due to me being ill then bad snow that meant our village was basically cut off then DS being ill, he didn't get his first vaccines until 12wks. Genetic testing and family history confirm that there is a strong case for it being caused by genetic factors.

Vaccines do NOT cause autism. At all. Full stop.