To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

Anyone who comes out with tin-foil hat theories as argument against irrefutable scientific fact surely can't hope to be taken seriously?

Mine actually aren’t sicker. Real life day to day example of vaccines in action - I caught rotavirus when it was going round. A mum at the school said watch out, you’ll all have it in a week.

We didn’t.

She said wow! you must be amazing at cleaning toilets.

Nope, my kids are all vaccinated! She was astonished. I don’t know why, it’s not magic beans.

I really would like to know why our children are sicker and yes, I would rather risk measles or mumps than type 1 diabetes or leukaemia
Could you please show me where T1 is linked to vaccines?

yes, I would rather risk measles or mumps than type 1 diabetes or leukaemia.
There is a link between mumps and t1 diabetes.

Exactly Bruffin, T1 is genetic (with one proposition being MMR viruses as triggers) so I’d like to know wtf previous poster is on about.

In fact there is work being done on a vaccine for it.

You are all as blinkered as any anti-vaxxers. Studies cannot be done on unvaccinated kids as there aren’t enough of them. There are no comprehensive studies looking at the effects of the number of vaccines done now.

“Science” - what does that even mean? Who funds it? How does it? What are the control groups? And peer reviewed often means “ask a mate”. The quality of most studies is very low. The research done before a vaccine is launched is often insufficient (I’m looking at you, Gardasil). And vaccine damage is hugely underreported.

So why are rates of these diseases increasing? Why are children under 5 developing autoimmunity? More cancers year on year. More depression and anxiety. I don’t know if it’s due to vaccines or not because the studies aren’t there but I will wager it’s a possible factor alongside our shite diets and exposure to various pesticides.

We have to ask questions and subject research to rigour. And if you don’t believe me look at one of the threads on MN on Gardasil, that it is denied there are any issues and the vaccine damage is therefore not recorded and therefore the numbers look good. Them check out the research done to bring Gardasil to market. Then come back on here and tell me we shouldn’t at least be asking questions.

And here’s some stats to dispute your claim that measles wasn’t a huge deal in the 80’s. Deaths had more than halved by the 90’s.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-deaths-by-age-group-from-1980-to-2013-ons-data/measles-deaths-by-age-group-from-1980-to-2013-ons-data

When DC1 saw a paediatrician for a neurological condition aged 2 (in the last decade), I was asked about their immunisation history. I had staggered the schedule and omitted some inoculations, with a view to having them slightly later. The paediatrician actually said "Great, we can rule out vaccination injury. How about forceps delivery?"
DC1 has since had all required immunisations as was always my intention.

Where is the link to vaccines and T1 please?

We have to ask questions and subject research to rigour

Anti-vaxxers do the first, but not the second. Put their children in danger based on fuck-all, and endanger others.

Any links on Gardasil? and no, I don't mean MN threads.

I think the increase would be down to increased prem survival.
Also as pp adhd and smoking in pg.
Increased maternal and paternal ages.
I think also you can now meet someone more similar say at uni which means a recessive gene may be more likely to be expressed.
Some medications eg for epilepsy can increase asd.

this debunks the myths about of lack of research on Gardasil

I don’t think the rise in conditions is down to vaccinations I think it is down to schooling. Take me vs. My grandmother for example. She has the exact same traits that I have that were picked up in me as ADHD and dyspraxia. This was in college and university. My grandmother left school at 16 at a time where they didn’t screen for these things the way they do now. When I started college, they screened all 1000+ new students in my inner london college for learning difficulties. There was none of that in my nans day. Often such conditions aren’t as obvious as you might think. I think the correlation between learning difficulties and disability and vaccines is not indicative of causation.

I personally think people who haven’t got an extensive scientific background and haven’t personally researched links between one thing and another shouldn’t be able to spout off about why there might be merit to that particular idea.

Your reasoning is like saying, terrorists all eat rice so rice makes people terrorists. There is no link.

It's not vaccines that are altering children - it's partly that we didn't know about or talk about mental disorders in the past. There used to be shame about it and now lots more kids get diagnosed because it's not shameful.

Also, the internet means you read a lot more about things like ADHD and SM means that you see people you know talking about it.

Finally, the internet means that our brains are living in an environment they're not adapted to. We're over loaded with information and it screws with children's brains.

If you can't figure out that these are the reasons and not vaccines (what even made you jump from prevents measles to causes ADD?) then you're a bit thick tbh.

Exactly Sparklesocks. I am a lay person who worked for many years in a clinical trial environment. Peer review is nothing like ask your mates, clinical trials are hugely regulated and take many years to make it. They are passed through several committees of respected peers, often friends yes because they are in the same field but massively impartial and sometimes critical of each other’s work when patients are involved, lead scientists, pharmacologists, every change to the protocol will require sign off, and even then they may fail in phase II. This is even more regulated after the Northwick Park incident.

Who is funding them? Vaccine research programs. And in some cases it will be the evil pharma who are working in collaboration with charities and trusts.

Nope.

Anti vaxxers, lol as stupid as flat earthers
We see more adhd, asd and such now cos we actually know about it and diagnose.
Its not some vaccine conspiracy

Has it occurred to you that there has been an incremental rise in population as well? Along with that there has been a massive spike in drug and alcohol abuse? Then bring into the lack of basic nutrition, increase in daily exposure to chemical pollutants, etc..... I think you'll find that has more to do with the increase than the scientifically proved evidence that THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN VACCINATIONS AND ASD/AUTISM.

To all the parents stating that their children had autism before they were given the MMR.... virtually all vaccines in the U.K. schedule have aluminium as an adjuvant. It is not just the MMR which is linked to vaccine damage. Also there have been no studies on the safety of vaccination during pregnancy. However we do know that fever induced inflammation during pregnancy is linked to autism: www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20170614/fever-during-pregnancy-tied-to-autism-in-study#1
Fever is widely recognised as the the most common side of vaccination. So I personally wonder if the parents of these autistic children were vaccinated whilst pregnant ... not to mention of course the initial course of vaccines given to babies.

There is still so little know about the human immune system and this blind faith in science having all the answers is utterly naive.

I don’t have time to pick up every point on that link to Gardasil. But firstly, it’s now being reconsidered whether we should in fact get some sun to prevent cancer - so they are lagging behind already.

Second, the issues with Gardasil relate to the reporting of adverse events. The concern is that it is linked to POTS which takes a long time to diagnose and initially presents in a non specific way. Thus many families say their chikd’s Illness hasn’t been recorded as a vaccine damage and so statistically, the vaccine seems fine.

I’m laughing at the PP who thinks studies are rigorous enough. Many are incredibly poor - on all aspects of health - and subject to bias both ways.

I’m not anti-vaccine myself but I exercise caution and avoid those that I feel have not been suffuciently tested or don’t work well.

And no, I don’t trust many experts in many fields. Areas are constantly shifting and moving and lines of thinking change.

I don’t think vaccines are the root of all evil but I feel are a factor in our population that is increasingly allergic, autoimmune, obese and depressed.

Maybe that is the price we pay for not dying younger?

CalledyoufromGlasgow makes a good point..
health strategies are continually changing... advice doing a complete 180

Think saturated fat being bad, dairy for osteoporosis being good and now the fact that reasonable sun exposure helps to prevent cancer etc etc

The science is never settled, there should be no consensus. Things should always be vigorously challenged. And the fact is they’re not. The above changes have come about after literally decades of misinformation while any contrary research was suppressed

And the original rewatch relating to the issues of saturated fat deeply flawed!

There are many now challenging the deeply entrenched beliefs around cholesterol and cardiovascular risk. Pointing to triglycerides and insulin resistance as the issue.

It is ever moving and governments are subject to huge financial pressure from food companies (which fund “peer reviewed” research!)

I actually agree with the two previous posters that questioning is of vital importance. Not accepting things in blind faith but requiring evidence. It's the fundamental tenet of science. But that's where we diverge.

Here's a good link which draws from credible research:
vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/faqs-about-vaccines

I've never seen credible evidence on the other side. There is a difference between questioning and conspiracy.