To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

Obviously something is causing the spike in neuro problems

Yeah, organic food! PP already proved that!

JacksonPillock... is that seriously the best analogy you can come up with?

Not one person in my family has an ASD diagnosis. I expect t my 30yo son would but he is high functioning and when he was a child I was scared being labelled would cause problems. I'm pretty sure I would be diagnosed too. Very much the geeky kid, who like a PP said spent a lot of time with a book in a space I could control. I still have sensory issues around food and clothing and can be obsessive. Also my mum, in fact her siblings too. All very eccentric. And their dad and my mums maternal uncle. OHoften wonders how he married into such an odd family. So that's 4 generations and only one where a parent even considered it might be an issue.

Wanttobesupermum, when did the British education system, apart from private schools, offer 2 hours of sport per day, small classes and a challenging circulumn ? It certainly was nt in the 1970s or 80s.

Well of course I'm doing what's best for my child! That is my number one priority! And what's best is obviously preventing him from life-threatening diseases! But the herd immunity is absolutely necessary for eradication of these diseases. God forbid one of your children gets leukaemia and has chemo but desperately wants to go to school to see his friends during the course of his treatment. But several of them are anti-vaxxers and there's a measles outbreak in the town and peolple will still say "I don't give a fuck. Get him vaccinated if you're worried" and generally demonstrating zero understanding. Yes I care about my kids first but I do also give a shit about society. It doesn't suprise me in the least that an anti-vaxxer would find this so incredible. It's the ultimate selfishness ti basically expose your kid to risk because you're worried about a non-proven link to learning disabilities. I find it abhorrent.

*@User12879923378
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*Those like the OP - and their unfortunate offspring - will die of fully preventable diseases like measles and polio.

OMG @Lucyloulee seriously?!

YES.
SERIOUSLY.*

Just to make it clear I was horrified how could anyone say such a thing not asking if it's possible. So apparently myself and my offspring will die because Lucyloulee says so.

JacksonPillock... is that seriously the best analogy you can come up with?

Why, did you want one that would make your decisions seem less objectionable?

@JacksonPillock
If only it were the anti-vaxxers that were dying off due to their choices. That would be natural selection and much meeded population control for the planet. But it's their children, who can't be expected to tell the difference between an article posted on facebook and a peer-reviewed published study that are suffering for their ignorance. And that's just disgusting.

Don’t respond to it then I’m entitled to my opinion even if you disagree

But you aren't entitled to your own facts, user145etc.

*@JasperRising
*
Maybe not in the sense of an injection but there are various tablet preventative medicines to be taken. Some of which definitely have known side effects (hallucination and such like) but people visiting a country for a holiday still take anti-Malarial drugs because Malaria is bad...

Definitely not in the same sense. Tablets can lessen the symptoms. You can also only take larger dose after developing symptoms befor getting to hospital. Many people keep it for this purpose only to avoid side effects.

It's obvious the OP is ignoring posts that don't support the anti vax theory and have a counter point This. The fact thermisol (sp?) isn't even used in UK vaccines still hasn't been acknowledged as far as I can see.

It had been acknowledged. Patience please I don't have that much time 🙂

The only thing I have said is that now 1 in 2 will get cancer. As quoted in adverts for cancer charities. I don’t call this a fact as I truly hope it isn’t,

Ok I'm taking a break. I'm not ignoring anyone or any facts or research or links or whatever. I just have some other things to do 🙂
I would ask some posters to chill but most likely it won't work... Well try at least please 😁

The rise in SN, is down to many factors, more awareness, support, bioenvironmental factors, there is no proof that vaccines cause SN such as Autism. My dd who has moderate Autism, was an Autistic baby way before having the MMR.

As people have said, there were kids with SN in schools, those who couldn't keep up or were behind, were caned or humiliated, the quirky clever kid or strange kid, probably had Autism, those with severe and profound SN where I'm special schools or hidden in institutions away.

I think mai streaming of chdren, brought them to the forefront, there is more early intervention, so kids with SN are likely to be picked up by HV checks, parents recognising something is wrong and acting on it. Educational places recognising SN in kids like in our case.

I think a lot of people on here, myself included, were schooled in a non-digital age. Maybe that has contributed, in an age where we are bombarded with readily available information, to the inability to source and filter credible information, fact-check it, know how to properly analyse data and sources and critical thinking skills. People that can claim they have 'done a lot of research' and conclude a causal link to SN, when none has ever been scientifically proven by a credible source go to show that some people do not know how to conduct proper research into something scientific. And will inevitably waffle on about agendas and conspiracies. The arrogance that lead some to believe they know better, after googling for a time, than someone who has trained their whole life, is astonishing.

I have got ADHD, so does my older son. The youngest one I don't know yet as he is a baby.

I was pretty vaccine anxious when my first was a baby. It sounds like this is where you are now - stuck in the middle and not sure who to believe. It's not a very nice place to be. FWIW though I don't think it's a bad question to ask. I think more people should be open to asking why is this necessary, what does this cause, what are the risks etc. It's good to have open discussion on big topics because everyone can benefit from understanding more.

Personally I'm not worried about autism or ADHD. I've learned so much about ADHD since I was diagnosed and there is simply no link to vaccines. I don't believe there is for autism either. The most overwhelming evidence is pointing towards both of these things being genetic. We're not quite there yet with ASD but with ADHD we can basically say this is what causes it. There are a couple of other causes too - hypoxic brain injury for one, smoking during pregnancy can also cause this and traumatic brain injury too causes issues with the same brain areas as ADHD. But not vaccines, not parenting, not TV, not any kind of food. The thing is actually if something is genetic with a 50% chance of being passed on then rates are never going to decrease. If you look into the history of both disorders there are records going back centuries which describe very similar things, long before vaccines. And as mentioned mild cases were usually written off as behavioural or "quirks" and severe cases were shut away in institutions or may have even been more likely to die from things like childhood infections (which ironically vaccines now protect many autistic children from) because they were malnourished due to sensory issues around food for example, or during times when children were given more freedom, it's likely children with ADHD may have taken more risks and had more accidents.

If there is an environmental cause for autism and vaccines contribute they are likely to be a small part of contributing factors (vaccines aren't hugely potent in terms of other things we ingest - not sure why they have this reputation) - you would do much better to campaign against things like plastics, heavy metals, contaminants in foodstuffs etc. These things have much less direct benefit to humans than vaccines.

I am not particularly worried about medical bodies and "big pharma" - this is indeed a problem in the US (and perhaps why they have more routine vaccinations than other nations?) but worldwide not really. We have pretty good, neutral agencies which aren't profit driven and which are set up in such a way that bribes and pressure tactics would be very difficult to pull off discreetly. Do bear in mind that a lot of antivax stuff online is coming from the US. In addition. If you follow a lot of antivax stuff down to the root you find companies which are making profit from so-called "natural" health products and the whole lifestyle around this alternative way of thinking. They give off this free-love hippy vibe but underneath it all is profit. Like formula companies put a lot of money into measures which undermine breastfeeding, the "natural health" and "holistic" companies put a lot of money and effort into undermining trust in what they call "mainstream" medicine. Because if you think about it - if it's about improving health why not work with each other? It's not, it's about increasing market share. Have a read about (for example) David Avocado Wolfe or Hay House.

When I thought about it what I was anxious about in terms of vaccines was the big encephalitis reaction, that's the scary one to me, the one that antivaxxers vaguely refer to as "vaccine damage". But encephalitis is a side effect to many of the diseases we vaccinate against, too. And if you get the disease, then it's many many times more likely than it would have been from the vaccine itself. There are actually places you can look to compare these risks now. You can also look at the stats for how often the diseases are contracted - but bearing in mind this is with a mostly vaccinated population.

I think it’s going to be cyclical. So anti vac will eventually cause the rise of these awful diseases again, we will all be reminded how fucking awful they are when people start dying or are maimed again. There will be a panic vaccination program, people will adher to it. 30 years time the anti vacs will rise again and so will the disease.

I’m short we’ve forgotten how bad the diseases really are.

@BertieBotts very, very well put post. Thank you. Especially for me the point surrounding those companies actively promoting the anti-vax movement. I do know something about this (DH works in this natural-science health products field - though he would never promote anti-vax) There is absolutely agenda and it all comes down to profit.

Haven't RTFT, but for me, I think everybody should do their own research with all of the available information. Both sides.

I have one DS and he is fully vaccinated but will be having no more should they come up. If I were to have another (not likely, I don't want any more) I would definitely be very cautious about which ones I would let them have

That's the problem @JacquettaW - so many people lack the ability to research properly and think googling and reading random articles is research, without actually checking sources or going anywhere near peer-reviewed articles.

...and indeed, if you have found a peer-reviewed article that supports the anti-vax stance, please do share it on here.

My dog always used to run to me when I called him. Now he's broken his 2 back legs, he doesn't come running when I call him. I have therefore concluded there's a link in dogs between broken legs and deafness.

My dog always used to run to me when I called him. Now he's broken his 2 back legs, he doesn't come running when I call him. I have therefore concluded there's a link in dogs between broken legs and deafness.

I bet he only broke his legs after he had his vaccinations as well. Therefore, I conclude a link between dog vaccinations and broken limbs.

I hope he recovers from his broken legs soon and isn’t in too much discomfort. (< that’s a dog biscuit)

Not all research is equal.

Just leaving this here. Have you ever seen anything like the boy on the left in your lifetime? No? Guess vaccines work then huh.

That picture :(

So what explanation do AVers have for the disappearance of smallpox then? Luck? Sunshine?