To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

viiz there were combined injections when I was young too (born early 80’s).

But look, you’re coming on here all faux naive. The wide eyed ‘I haven’t got a clue, it all just seems so confusing!’ But you’ve done a huge amount of ‘research’ and are perfectly happy to genuinely think ‘big pharma’ are out to poison all our children while laughing maniacally and rolling around in money. Do what you like love. Lots of people have taken time to explain what science is and how it works to you. If you don’t want to vaccinate your non-existent children then don’t. But don’t expect people to be pleased for you about it.

want to make this clear that I'm vaccinated, I don't have children yet and I don't know what I would do once I have them. I'm not anti or pro. Just curious.

You’ll do what every other batshit crazy anti-vaxxer does and rely on the herd immunity created by those of us who have been sensible enough to vaccinate our children . Except that herd immunity is dwindling to dangerous levels because of batshit crazy anti-vaxxers

*@SaltySeaBird
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We consume chemicals, stare at screens, don’t exercise enough, life in a society of instant gratification. Look at the increase in cancer, t2 diabetes, mental health disorders. While I’m not arrogant enough to say it’s 100% not vaccination related (although that is 100% my personal view) I think lifestyle is far, far more likely to be linked alongside an increase in awareness and diagnosis.

I do agree that lifestyle is to be blamed for a lot of the above especially diabetes and mental health issues. I have no idea about autism though. You could be right of course. Hopefully one day we will know more but for now I can only be careful.

There's greater awareness of the conditions, greater knowledge of them and more sensitive diagnostic tools.

There are adults who are only now being diagnosed.

I was diagnosed with ADD at the age of 49. My traits can be traced through my family.

There are thousands of adults out there who can't hold down jobs, are 'odd', can't read social cues, can't read, add up, are clumsy and struggle every day with undiagnosed help.

YABU

Sorry.

undiagnosed and without help

Maybe it’s better to ask the questions as to why some children die from these illnesses yet the majority are absolutely fine..

Prevention is better than dealing with consequences.

It's like saying "I don't need fire safety certified products in my house because we are fine and never had a fire. Rather than looking at why firest start, we should look at why some people make it out and some dont."

@planespotting do you think any other of your relatives (parents, grandparents , uncles etc) could be diagnosed? Just curious about genetic link.

Anti vaxxers are relying on everyone else to vaccinate their own children. Utterly selfish.

Some children did die of these diseases and some children do die from having vaccines

So isn't it just about basic statistical risk vs. reward. How many people used to die of these immunisable diseases before the vaccines were developed, and how many people now die from the vaccines? If the latter is significantly lower than the former (hint: it is) then to me, it makes sense. I want to give my child the statistically lowest risk of dying possible!

I have 2 with ASD, I have no reason to believe it has anything to do with vaccines, I can see see a familial link, though those family members have no diagnosis. I believe there is a peak around the 90's in ASD diagnosis, but that coincides with the crtieria being opened up to HF/Aspergers. and it is fairly steady year on year since. Cant' remember where I read that though.

What was interesting to me at DS1's diagnosis, I was asked about his MMR and did he have a reaction. He did about 10 days after after having it, high temperature, rash, very lethargic. This is a known possible side-effect. The consultant paediatrician, and the 2 other clinicians immediately told me that was a coincidence and he must have had a viral infection. I was really because they specifically asked me, I had no reason to bring the MMR up as I don't believe it to be a cause for DS1 (or 3). But they were using the information to filter back somewhere and presumably recorded it as no reaction for DS1, despite him very much having one, that is well known about. Very odd.

*@OftenHangry
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I don't know ehere you were born, but I was also born outside of UK, late 80's, and ADHD and ADD very much existed. But it wasn't called that. It had different namesand kids were not given any soecial treatment. Surely you had that 1 child in class who was being disruptive, teachers were trying to seat them away from other kids etc.
Autism also existed. But in country where I was born, people with disabilities ended up hidden. Luckily that all changed now.

It seems that a lot of MN members have children affected by ASD and other disorders. It also seems that for some many family members could have been diagnosed if those issues were recognised properly in the past.
Do you find it to be similar in the country you where born at? Do you know of as high numbers of diagnosed children over there?

I can honestly say I never had anyone like that in my class. No weird behaviours or being disruptive. And this would be throughout all my childhood and teen years.

JacksonPillock... see I don’t agree. While a small minority of children are killed and seriously injured by vaccines, I believe there is a large majority facing the life time consequences of reduced immune function (in varying degrees) and allergies as a result of being injected with such a cocktail of ingredients. That is why the risk is greater as far as I’m concerned. Which is my perogative as fortunately at the moment personal health choices aren’t dictated by mumsnet.

Maybe it’s better to ask the questions as to why some children die from these illnesses yet the majority are absolutely fine....
Because some are exposed and some are not. Some are immuno-compromised and some are not. Some are vaccinated and some are not. Some would love to be but cannot be and rely on herd immunity. Hence the recent measles outbreaks thanks to people like you, helping to expose vulnerable people to preventable and potentially deadly diseases.
Slow hand clap. I sincerely hope you children continue to be lucky with their health until they are at an age to be horrified by the risk you have taken with them and they can go and get themselves protected and therefore protect others less fortunate around them.

You may have done some research into some psudo bollocks science but you sure as fuck haven't read anything up to date and relevent about autism. Meta data studies show up to 90% of autism has a genetic link FFS.

Cheetahs you’re not very bright are you....
I’m clearly referring to children that actually develop these illnesses. Most are absolutely fine.

I believe there is a large majority facing the life time consequences of reduced immune function (in varying degrees) and allergies as a result of being injected with such a cocktail of ingredients

Right, so it comes down to you basing your healthcare on what you "believe" rather than any evidence or expertise. And then you act surprised that people are shocked.

*@differentnameforthis
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• If you knew how it presented you would know people.

I was born in the 70s, went to school with several kids who now would be dx with asd. My mother used to work in a unit with people with disabilities and I often went in to help out and many of those people I now know presented with severe asd.

My dh has asd. His dad too, possibly even his dad's dad from what we have heard.

Autism was often misdiagnosed as childhood schizophrenia or childhood psychosis. Autism is not new, the dx is, and many many more people are known to be on the spectrum because they know more and more about it.

Educate yourself before you start to spout dangerous propaganda.*

Just to make it clear none of the people I was writing about had been diagnosed with childhood schizophrenia or psychosis either because not one person I knew had any symptoms to be diagnosed with anything at all. It's not a matter of having different names for things but a matter of simply not showing any symptoms.
Ok now maybe my childhood/teen years seem really unusual but that's how it was 🙂

I agree with most vaccinations, but not flu.

Flu is not life threatening in healthy people, I think it's very ineffective and I think it's better for children to build up a natural immunity to some things. I don't agree with herd immunisation, we are not cattle and if you want your gran to be immunised then take her to the doctor, don't expect my child to do it for you.

JacksonPillock... Yeap what I have come to believe from the research and experience I have... I’ve been looking at this in depth for the last 30 yrs...
Just like you believe what you do from the research you have done ....
we just don’t agree... which is fine ...you can think and do what you like. I’m not relying on your pseudo concept of herd immunity to protect me or my children. The notion of Herd immunity was originally down to naturally acquired immunity anyway.

Cheetahs you’re not very bright are you....
I’m clearly referring to children that actually develop these illnesses. Most are absolutely fine
Luckily I am comfortable with my intellect, just uncomfortable with people saying 'clearly' when they haven't been clear with their sentence structure at all. And an anti-vaxxer accusing me of being not-very-bright is hilarious. Do you really need it explaining to you how viruses work? How some people can recover from them easily and some are harder hit? Really??? And what has that to do with anything anyway? What is your point?

Vaccines have prevented millions of deaths.
Vaccines have caused problems for a relatively small number of people.
There's no proof that vaccines cause Autism.
There have been massive lifestyle changes in the past 50 years that could be the reason Autism is more common than it was.

Well said namechanger22
All these virtue signallers out there making out they are doing this for the good of society ... they are doing what they think is best for THEIR child

Look up 'confirmation bias' and then think again.

You're basing an opinion on anecdotes and snippets of what you're reading on-line and in the press.

There's is no statistical link between vaccines and neurological syndromes, as much as anti-vaxxers want there to be.

we just don’t agree... which is fine ...you can think and do what you like

To an extent, yes. I guess when adults are responsible for the health and safety of their kids, people understandably find it harder to keep quiet and let people get on with their stupid decisions.

Like I could say that based on my own research, I don't believe in looking left and right before crossing the road, and I teach my kids not to do so either. I could then say "you lot can't tell me what to think or do!" but I probably shouldn't be surprised if people called me a fucking idiot.

There is a herd mentality on here that you cannot even raise questions or query the amount of vaccines in a single injection. Obviously something is causing the spike in neuro problems.