To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

And yet we still have cancer that 1 in 2 people will get. It used to be 1 in 4.

And the rate people die of cancer in Syria is even lower. Must be a healthy place to live.

And for those citing how reliable the scientific community is... try going against the ‘consensus’ let alone trying to get any funding. Vaccination is a multi billion liability free industry

Isn’t part of the reason cancer is higher in developed countries is the higher life expectancy. E.g the longer you live the likelihood is higher especially prostate cancer in men.

Huge rise in ASD? So my eldest has been diagnosed with ASD. She wouldn't have been until relatively recently because she wouldn't have met the diagnostic criteria. In the grand scheme of things, they are quite new as they are.

Looking at mine and DH's families I would say DH is probably ASD, his brother certainly is, as is his uncle. In my family, I think my mother and grandmother most probably are/were ASD. Not one of them has/had a diagnosis though. It's not that it wasn't happening, it's that it wasn't known or recognised for what it was. I can also look back to my school days and think of children that were most likely ASD/ADHD but likewise without a diagnosis.

I suggest you read "Neurotribes" by Steve Silberman if you have a genuine interest in the subject.

Mysterian are you saying the rate is 1 in 1?

Correlation is not causation.
Correlation is not causation.
CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION!
That is all. Keep repeating until it goes in.

I agree, you are right, there seems to be more children with SN, dd has ASD/learning difficulties, ds has developmental delay, and speech and language problems, he is just how I was at school in the 1980s, but back then, there was no awareness of special needs, or help and support, so I just muddled along, and I caught later on. The rise of SN nobody can pin point any one cause, could be genetic, environmental,the rise of pollutants in the environment, and chemicals in our food. More processed foods, which ingredients represent a chemistry set , who knows what those chemicals are doing to our bodies and unborn babies bodies. There is no link between vaccines and Autism, that hAs been disproved .

Do you not read the news OP? Measles outbreaks in Washington state where vaccine take up is less than required for herd immunity, a state of emergency has been declared because some children are so sick they’re winding up in hospital. Who knows how many of them will wind up with hearing and other health problems going forward? Is that what you want for your children? It’s only a matter of time before the first measles related death too.

It should be deemed fucking child abuse not to have your child vaccinated because of a bunch of pseudoscientific bullshit. And to allow your unvaccinated child loose in the community to infect vulnerable infants and immuno-compromised people should be criminalized too.

My generation was vaccinated so was the succeeding one, probably yours, this is why some diseases were eradicated, in 2000 here in the USA measles was declared done yet now it’s making a fucking comeback because stupid, complacent people, who have never seen the devastating effects these diseases can hav, pay more attention to scaremongering quackery spread on social media than they do actual doctors. Get your kids vaccinated and stop being a gullible dupe.

I always find these threads fascinating.
To me it is clear (for now) vaccinations do work and are far less harmful than some of the anti vac. people make us believe. The proof is in the pudding so to speak!

As a child of the 60s, I'd say that far, far more children are diagnosed with 'something' rather than just treated as one of the class that's a bit outside the norm.
In my class of probably 40-42 kids in primary we had children who wouldn't sit still and wanted to get up and wander round - they were told off and eventually sent to be caned. We had children who were not as bright - they had to go to a smaller 'remedial' class for maths as they couldn't keep up with the rest of the class. We had children who were dreamy and didn't follow instructions just passively sat and stared into space - they were brought back to earth with a blackboard rubber and told to copy down whatever they weren't copying. Nowadays I'm quite sure rather than being told off those kids would have a label and be treated far better in schools with additional help not punishment.

I think the real culprit is likely to be the sterile home. Lots of studies have shown the benefits of bacteria, it's not natural to be swamped with antibacterial everything.
just quickly picked a few articles , I think it's a topic worthy of more study and I'm sure there are more & better research on this.
Really don't think vaccinations have owt to do with it, as a vaccine is only producing antibodies to the actual infection we want to protect against, whereas a general antibacterial wipe every surface down and don't play in the gutter attitude covers lack of exposure to far more general bacteria in great numbers

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17952320
kresserinstitute.com/gut-flora-food-allergies-connection/
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160616140723.htm

Both my kids have been vaccinated, it's a public health matter Todo this. The anti Vaxxers are bringing back dangerous diseases which were once erradicated, nptotally irresponsible!

Mysterian are you saying the rate is 1 in 1?

Only if he/she is saying the rate of death in people who are dead is 1 in 1.

The rise is SN is largely down to advances in diagnosing SD, which has a long way to go but has improved immensely in the last few decades. Which is a great thing. Has bog all to do with vaccines! You can't, for example, compare no. of children with ADHD now to a period of time when it hadn't been discovered! And even if it did, I'd rather have a boy with, say, ADHD or autism than to have lost him altogether to something preventable like measles.

*diagnosing SN, not SD

Oh and the so-called rise in the rates of asd isn’t a rise at all, it was always there it just went undiagnosed in the past. I know several of my peers in the 60s would have definitely been diagnosed placed on the spectrum these days. As a pp said (a few times), correlation does not equal causation.

*@KoraBora
*
I do love how often Thimersol is quoted as a reason not to vaccinate by people who have "done their research." That alone shows that their research is useless as if they had properly researched they would know it is not in any of our childhood vaccines in the UK.

Please read with understanding. I never said that children should not be vaccinated because of thimersol or for any other reason. I never claimed I've 'done research'. I raise questions that's it.
Btw do you believe that thimersol is harmful and was it ever used in children vaccines in U.K. in the past? Genuine question as you seem to be familiar with that ingredient.

No user, the pp is saying that the rates of people developing cancer in Syria is less than 1 in 2. Because they die younger.

Sorry. Rate is lower. Because they die of other stuff. You've got to die of something, so safe healthy countries are going to have high cancer deaths.

*@sycamore54321
*
OP you are an anti-vaxxer. You are a classic anti-vaxxer, trying to spread doubt and fear because that’s effective. It’s dangerous and it’s hugely unethical. Children will die because of people saying what you are saying. And effectively what you are saying is “better dead than autistic”, on a board where you recognize that many parents have children with special needs. Charming.

The objective is to open a discussion, see what other people think, hear about real life experiences. I consider everything that's being said unless it's being done in rude manner. If anyone want to talk rudely then better not to do that at all.

I honestly don't think that I would fit a definition of anti-vaxxer. I'm vaccinated myself, I never said that I would not vaccinate my child/children and I don't encourage anyone to do that. I don't even expect that the answer to my question would be clear vaccinate or don't vaccinate. For example the answer could be less vaccines, more spread out , different age so it's safer etc. Not everything is black or white.

Please don't tell me what I'm 'effectively saying' trying to change meaning of my words. You're being disrespectful to parents of children with special needs yourself for even insinuating this. That would never even cross my mind. Very charming of you indeed.

"I'm entitled to my opinion". No, you are not. Not when your opinion is about facts that are easily provable.

Countries with low rates of vaccines, also have higher rate of incidence of preventable diseases. Many of these countries, due to poverty ext, also have significant additional health and medical problems as a result of a range of factors e.g. higher infant and maternal mortality, increased death as a result of day-to-day infections, more disability that could be fixed/mitigated In richer countries etc. These are facts. Not opinions.

I think it is odd not to question vaccinations at all and blindly give them to your child with no research or questioning at all. Yes we have scientists to do the research for us but most people don’t even know the ingredient list or how vaccines are made.

I won’t say wether there’s a link or not to childhood disorders and the rise of them (I personally think it’s more known, researched and accepted as I’ve oftej heard elderly people say autism was around then but it was, they just weren’t given that specific formal diagnosis) but it’s VERY common for children with autism to have a regression where they startling autistic traits and loose speech around the same time their vaccinations are due. My son had his and regressed completely a week later and is diagnosed Autistic. I would NEVER say that a vaccine caused him to have autism, I think the far more likely (if anything) theory was it triggered something already there.

I also think the fact there is a vaccine damage fund for people given by our government is enough reason to at least question what your giving your kids.

We decided for our daughter to give her the menB, menC/HIb and pneumococcal vaccines but not the rest.

@HouseyMcHouseFace maybe that's 8 injections but more vaccines than that. Some of them are 3 in 1 or 6 in 1

And lots of people (women in particular) are now being diagnosed in their 40’s/50’s etc. Or realising they are on the spectrum

OP you are probably realising that on mumsnet you dare not question the religion of vaccines or be damned... in real life people are much more pragmatic

Some children did die of these diseases and some children do die from having vaccines. I personally think that the risk from vaccines is greater so I chose not to. My child is v bright and healthy and barely ever I’ll, has no allergies etc etc

Maybe it’s better to ask the questions as to why some children die from these illnesses yet the majority are absolutely fine.... similar question to why some children are damaged and killed by vaccines and until these questions can be answered, no medical procedure should ever be mandated against someone consent. That is basic human right

@gamerchick Actually there should be at least some info with this photo as to where it was taken, who were the children, what did they suffer from etc. Like this it's just used by someone to prove their point but we don't even know if it had anything to do with autism at all!

No, your thread was only worthy of a picture. It properly boils my piss when ignorant people hiding between 'wide eyed' questions come out with tripe such as there wasn't autism back in my day. They're instantly wrote off as goady and a bit ignorant.

That includes IRL.

If you really want to do research then do some research.