To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

*@JasperRising
*
But you have completely ignored the posts that directly addressed the details of the interview that you provided - they provided a link debunking the no autism in the Amish community, explained that thimerol is NOT used in UK vaccines and pointed out that the doctor in question has some interesting views - which suggests you aren't paying attention to people's opinions if they differ from this interview you found.

Im still working my way up to get to those posts and reply 🙂 I actually asked people to provide some info when quoting that interview. I pay attention to it all and I'm glad to get replies and links so we can talk about this. The only thing I'm trying to ignore are the times when people call me names. Not nice at all 😬

*@WitchesWeb
*
Also interesting choice of topic for your first ever posts OP 🤔

Well thank you WitchesWeb I also think it is 😉

Yes, you are being unreasonable to think that antivaxxers are on to something because literally all of the scientific studies that have been reliably and ethically carried out show that they're not.

The reason that more children are being diagnosed with ASD now than in the 80s is because the condition is much better understood. Ask my cousin, who has high functioning ASD and ADHD and who has not been able to access his academic potential at all because in the 80s he was "diagnosed" as being a weird, wilfully badly behaved child who had a bit of trouble reading and writing, instead of an intelligent child who needed extra help.

@viiz but it's true. I'm autistic myself and lead a fulfilling, full, lovely life. I'm a normal person to the outside eye- though I know that this isn't the cast for everyone with autism. But some people argue that vaccinating their child might cause their child to have autism - yes but by NOT vaccinating them they are putting them at risk of serious illness and even death!! Why is it even a comparison?!

I find it offensive that it's used as an argument by anti-vaxxers.

YABVVVU.

*@NoParticularPattern
*
They don’t seem so frightening now do they if it means your baby isn’t going to die a horrible, painful, preventable death? Or is what you’re really saying that those who have these disorders might as well be dead? Did you mean to be so rude?

When did I say any of this or when was I rude? Aren't you reading little too much into it? You're being rude by insinuating that I might mean that.

Its the same with my family genetics.
My DGM (b1912), DM (b30s)DSIS (b60s)
DS (b90s) all have had abnormal febrile convulsions up to puberty and a lot more than normal. When ds started having FC past 5 I googled and could find little info on it. When he had last one at 13 he was diagnosed with GEFS+ which is a genetic involving SCN1A gene. This can be traced a hundred years in my family but has only just been discovered.
The extreme form is Dravets syndrome which is a form of epilepsy which causes regression. Any fever can trigger the epilepsy, not just a fever caused by vaccines and in the past has been mistaken for vaccine damage.

Op most of the research you listed has been heavily refuted and not found in legitimate research

@Zoflorabore, Lot of MNers ask about situations (presented as problems) with their DC who they then add as having ASD. It sometimes is clear that or at least seems like they view the ASD as part of the problem that makes it hard to solve (hence why asking advice). They seem to need to include the ASD as part of the story. Which makes one think that they reckon that best response isn't necessarily something that applies to all children. Their children not being bog standard seems to add extra challenges, gives them a need to ask for advice more often than parents of kids without ASD (or another SN).

I don't know if that's 'negative'. It just is what it is.

Same anywhere online. Not much chatter about situations that are easily resolved.

I find it offensive that it's used as an argument by anti-vaxxers.

This!

*@Lucyloulee
*
*The conspiracy theories you are recklessly promulgating will take us back to a time when children died of measles, were paralysed for life by polio, and when whole families were wiped out by TB.

The posters here are trying to combat your stupidity because it is dangerous.*

Dear Lucyloulee would you be so rude to me if talking face in face? Calling me reckless and stupid and for what?? It seems you take it very personally for reasons unknown to me. I hope other posters don't see it as a combat though 😉

I would worry about my child dying of polio or tetanus.

Measles or mumps? Not so much.and I say that as someone married to a man rendered infertile through mumps.

Flu vaccine? Meh. HPV? No way.

Not all vaccines are equal and it’s silly to say things like “anti-vaxxers would rather their child died of measles than risk autism”. (It’s also a rather callous statement).

I do vaccinate but avoid flu vaccines, HPV and chose single measles because I don’t think it’s sensible to subject a young immune system to three live vaccines at one time.

I don’t trust much research by the way. A lot of it is flawed, improperly reviewed, poor numbers or a review of similarly poor research. And if you don’t believe me, check out the research prior to Gardasil being launched. I wouldn’t give Gardasil to my dog

FenellaMaxwell - There is not a massive rise in children with disorders, there is a massive rise in successful ability to diagnose disorders.

This with bells on! ^

I've NC for this due to personal info.

I am in my 50's. I'm autistic. I wasn't vaccinated and had measles as young child. As a consequence of measles, I lost my hearing.

It's not the vaccine that causes ASD, ADHD etc. But measles was the cause of my hearing loss.

The anti-vaxxers argument isn't valid, they aren't onto anything. Shit happens. The vaccine isn't to blame. What can I blame the fact that I'm autistic and deaf on? I certainly can't blame the vaccine I didn't have.

YABVU.

Thank you @DrWhoLovesMe. Lack of diagnosis for sure played a part. I'm just not sure if that's the only reason.
You're right to stay clear of this thread. This heat could be too much even for me 😉

Those like the OP - and their unfortunate offspring - will die of fully preventable diseases like measles and polio.

OMG @Lucyloulee seriously?!

*@SaveKevin
*
Even if the risks were proven (which they’ve been discredited) your honestly honestly saying you’d sooner your child died than have autism?

Never said that and I never would. Same like I never said that I would not vaccinate.
*
As for being a big pharma company conspiracy, surely they’d make more money out of sick people then prevention?*

What if they're making money out of both? Saying that I don't know if people affected by those disorders ( and if those disorders are linked to vaccines or not ) have to depend on meds throughout their lives or not. Could someone maybe shine some light on it please?

@CanIGetaRefund

Why didn't you vaccinate your children in the first place if you don't mind me asking? Fear of complications or some other reason?

It seems you take it very personally for reasons unknown to me.

I don’t want to return to a time when children and adults are killed and maimed by entirely preventable diseases.

It’s not only your children who will suffer. You will also, by decreasing general immunity levels in the population, endanger those children who cannot be vaccinated due to health problems.

Two of my grandfather’s siblings contracted polio after swimming in a local pond. One of them died, while the other was permanently crippled and ending up dying in his late thirties.

How much do you reckon their parents wished they could have given their children something to prevent them ever contracting polio?

The problem is that people today have no memory of these diseases. They don’t understand what it must have been like when your child could catch a fatal illness at school. Consequently, people like you have become complacent.

*Those like the OP - and their unfortunate offspring - will die of fully preventable diseases like measles and polio.

OMG @Lucyloulee seriously?!*

YES.
SERIOUSLY.

www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles

Measles has killed or seriously disabled many, many children pre vaccine and continues to do so now in places where vaccine isn't available or chosen. That's why we have a vaccine for it.

You can contrast that with chicken pox, for which a vaccine exists, but which is not provided routinely on the NHS because chicken pox does not usually kill or seriously disable children.

Seriously OP if you're going to sneer when people point out (on the basis of well established research) that diseases like polio and measles and mumps and rubella can have dire consequences if not eradicated then people are going to get frustrated with you. Of course these diseases are capable of hurting children. We don't vaccinate for fun.

viiz. There will be many many people on here who completely agree with you but are either too scared to post or who just don’t want to be dragged into the name calling slanging match that these threads always disintegrate into x
There have been virtually no studies comparing unvaccinated to vaccinated, or with vaccine safety in pregnancy

Thank you @MeredithGrey1. Those arguments come from the interview and are not mine but I would be really curious to get to know real statistics from low and high vaccinating countries. Might research that later.
Sorry for my mistake. It's supposed to be 1 in 5000.

There was a lady in America who is an anti vaxxer and in the state/town she lives in has had a measles outbreak and she actually posted on FB “how can I protect my child” lol “

vaccinate your child. Was the responses she got.

Thank you @Stressedout10. I see it can affect whole families through many generations.

Another one who don't think that many anti vaxxers realise how life changing measles can be.
My idiot of a next door neighbour hasn't vaccinated her two children as she's scared of them "catching autism" which has seriously offended me ( ds with HFA ) and her NDN the other side who has two children with pretty severe autism, one also has brain damage not linked to autism.

The irony is that it's pretty obvious that her youngest is on the spectrum. I'm no armchair diagnoser but have seen it enough in my immediate family to have more than a basic grasp on the spectrum.

She is the type who puts her life on FB, is a major drama queen and an absolute nightmare to live next door to. Must be all of the drugs she takes that cloud her view ( openly admits to a Coke habit ) and I have no respect for her whatsoever.

Don't even start me on food @anotherwearytraveller 😄 But I think I would need my own little farm to avoid all of what's bad out there

Wait, maybe the OP is onto something. In fact, we should ban vaccination for children completely. In fact, for all illnesses, including travelling abroad to countries where they have malaria, yellow fever, ebola etc. That would be the perfect solution, right?**

You're little dramatic @AwdBovril 🙂 As far as I know there is no vaccine against malaria yet and definitely not against ebola. I got vaccinated against yellow fever myself as an adult. What worries me and what I question is the amount of vaccinations for babies/children and their safety.