To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

There's a rise in diagnosis but I think there's two reasons - a lower threshold for diagnosis (dh is very like dd, she has asd) and older parents. Of our friends from university, 3 out of 5 of us have autistic kids! But with the exception of us, they all were 35+ when they were born, in our case I'm convinced it's genetic!

Autism usually doesn't involve a regression: rather, autism becomes noticeable at an age when most children start actively communicating with others and sharing information through speech or pointing; engaging in pretend play; etc. Until that point, the child may have met all their milestones, but now they are not meeting these new milestones. Since these abilities generally develop in the 2nd year of life, which is also when the MMR is given, autism may be noticed at around the same time as the child gets the MMR, which is falsely blamed. There are sadly, however, some disorders which do cause regression and forms of autism in children who had previously been developing typically. A well-known example is Rett syndrome. These disorders are mostly genetic.

Ps I knew there was something wrong with dd from birth, I didn't have a name for it, and it wasn't overly obvious to outsiders but she had low tone, poor latch, slept only 12 hours a day, hated strangers, obsessed about Winnie the Pooh... diagnosed at 2.

GirlRaisedInTheSouth - do you have a link? I'm very interested in looking into this.

I’m pretty sure there have been more diagnoses of PTSD after the Gulf and Afghan wars than after WW1 and WW2. Your logic would say that nobody got PTSD after the World Wars.

Most evidence suggests asd is genetic. Certainly seems the case in my family - 2 members diagnosed and one not. The one undiagnosed clearly has asd but is 70 now,, diagnosis just wasn't available for her when she needed it most. My young nephew was diagnosed as a kid and brother as an adult only last year. Certainly in our family's case early diagnosis has gotten loads better.

I can't believe that absolute crank of a study by Wakefield is being rolled out again. Not only was he struck off but he got the very small sample for his study by paying kids at his own kids birthday party! How unethical can you get??

Noticed no reply to sycamore54321's post up the thread which sums up the dangers of this kind of debate.
A friend of mine's child was harmed by a vaccine and she is on a anti-vaccination crusade now. I absolutely believe the vaccine was responsible for her child's symptoms and believe the alarming stories she shares however I feel very uneasy that her anti-vaccination stance is going to lead to other children harmed by preventable diseases.
In spite of believing the risk, I have still vaccinated as the horror of them succumbing to a preventable disease is more of a concern to me One of my 3 children is showing signs of some as yet un-named non neurotypical behaviour but I am not linking it to vaccination.

*@autumndreaming
*
There isn't a link. But even if there was, anti-vaxxers would rather their kids die from the things they would be vaccinated against than be autistic or have another such disorder.

Everyone please stop saying things like this 🙏 No one would ever want their child to suffer or die. This is very unfair. I don't understand why anyone would want to use this argument to put across their message.

"There isn't a link. But even if there was, anti-vaxxers would rather their kids die from the things they would be vaccinated against than be autistic or have another such disorder."

• This is honestly, just a painfully disgusting thing to say. I would never and could never make this kind of judgement of another parent who is trying to do their best. My children are vaccinated but I have friends who have chosen not to and I would never, EVER apply such a callous statement to them.

@viiz of course no-one wants their child to die, but if the refuse to vaccinate against potentially fatal diseases/illnesses then anti-vaxx parents are willingly putting their children at greater risk of dying because of some unknown 'what ifs'. They may as well send their kids out to play in the road and keep their fingers crossed that nothing hits them. It might not sound like a fair thing to say, but it's true

YABVU. Dr Andrew Wakefield's research into the link between the MMR and autism was proven to be fraudulent.

Basing your decision on what has happened in your friend and family circle has no basis in science.

Millions of people take vaccines. Many of us would be dead or disabled without them.

Nothing in life is risk free - I nearly got killed crossing the road this morning but it doesn't mean I am going to stop crossing the road.

Because nothing in life is risk free, some people will develop problems due to vaccines, but the chances of having a problem are far greater if you don't have the vaccine.

If you don't get vaccines you are putting your child at risk of getting one of the diseases and dying.

That's just a fact.

I think it's like anything, the diagnosis of things is better
8 years I had of always being ill. Probably would have been sickly/nerves in the past. But one lab in the country can test blood for a specific thing, they sent my blood off and I have anti neutrophil antibodies. So I kill off my own neutrophils which leaves me immunocompromised. It was 2015 and still took them 8 years to find what was wrong!

*@FlippinNora1
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OP you have to get your head around the fact you can’t control whether or not your child is born with ASD. They don’t suddenly catch it from vaccines or the bogeyman. THEY ARE BORN WITH IT.

I'm surprised to read post about how far back through generations autism can be traced in families. Those are the real life examples and experiences that Im glad to get to know about. I've never mentioned the bogeyman though 😉

OP asks:

What makes you think that your input is relevant enough to press Post button?

Because the anti vaccine ‘movement’ had already caused yawning wells of needless human pain and suffering and as such I feel great anger at people who speak in any way positively about it (including people like you posting threads on Internet forums to).

It’s stupid and dangerous and I will continue to call ‘discussions’ like this out for what they are whenever I see them.

Your

What will you tell your son, when he finds out that the mumps he had as a teenager have left him infertile so he will never be able to have children of his own?

What will you tell your daughter when she develops cervical cancer because you didn’t want to ‘risk’ her having the HPV vaccine?

What about if she contracts rubella while pregnant, and has either a stillborn baby or one with life limiting birth defects? What will you tell her then?

That these are not common scenarios that we are confronted with everyday is testament to the wonders of vaccinations.

This is what you’re ignoring.

I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though. If you knew how it presented you would know people.

I was born in the 70s, went to school with several kids who now would be dx with asd. My mother used to work in a unit with people with disabilities and I often went in to help out and many of those people I now know presented with severe asd.

My dh has asd. His dad too, possibly even his dad's dad from what we have heard.

Autism was often misdiagnosed as childhood schizophrenia or childhood psychosis. Autism is not new, the dx is, and many many more people are known to be on the spectrum because they know more and more about it.

Educate yourself before you start to spout dangerous propaganda.

*@ThePants999
*
OP, when a thousand scientists say one thing (and publish research proving it), and you dig out and spend your time listening to and posting about the one scientist who says the opposite, it's called "confirmation bias". You're not on the fence and trying to make an informed decision. You've already decided what you want to believe and you're looking for evidence for it.

I didn't dig anything out. I just like to question things, kind of my thing...If I was biased I would discard any other explanation and I don't.

Sorry for the typos. I’m feeding a rather lively vaccinated baby.

*the dx criteria is better known,

I just don’t understand why a doctor who was STRUCK OFF and proved to be false is STILL being believed by anti vaxers ?! I just can’t see how this happens?! It’s like he had some kind of weird, far reaching power over certain people, like some kind of cult!

Honestly I can’t get het up over your apparently non existent children. Do what you like and live with the consequences.

And tell me, what of my friend whose 3 children were all dx with asd before they had any vaccinations? (she delayed vaccines for personal reasons. All fully vaccinated after their dx, btw)

There is much more awareness of disorders now though. A child w adhd in the 70s. Or 80s would’ve been labelled ‘hyperactive’ or naughty and no iadnodis would have been sought.
As for autism. I did know one autistic boy but I should imagine those who were cognitively able went to mainstream schools and were the odd ones, and those who were more severely impaired went to special schools (as many lower functioning autistic children do now).
A link to autism & mmr has been disproven so you’re on a hiding to nowhere with that theory!