AIBU to think that the UK is no longer an attractive place to live

[Elloduckie]

NC here for this one. DH to be and I are getting married next year and we were looking to set up and be based here. But with everything going on, the UK does not seem that attractive to live.

Currently London based, we want/need to be somewhere that is diverse, have no patience bigotry etc. Though living in London doesn't make you immune from that!!

But to raise kids and work, it just doesn't seem like the UK is the place to be anymore. Does anyone else feel like this?
Thing is, we would we move to? Both are very mobile career wise and speak a few languages so that will not be an issue. Money wise should be fine too. Its literally a question of where else is good, diverse to raise kids and not colder than the UK (ruling out the Scandinavian countries).

Suggestions please..

No one can be so insular self-absorbed and socially inept, surely?

The UK is not the country it was. In many ways it is better than the vast majority of places in the world, but shitty Tory management, and Shitty labour under Blair hasve fucked us up.

Leaving the UK was the best thing I ever did. I have never regretted it. It is about finding the right fit. I initially moved to Lisbon and the day to day intolerance and prejudice was too much. I ended up relocating to Spain and have had no regrets.

Please explain what I have said is a wind up.

Your response to various posters pointing out how cripplingly London-Centric and ignorant of elsewhere in the UK you are, is to starting expounding the virtues of London.

and then you say

Am I wrong for wanting to live in Kingston or Wimbledon, just because I want diversity doesn't mean I have to live in Peckham or some other stabbing hotbed in London

I am sorry but whether you are for real or not I really cannot take you seriously when you write stuff like that.

Another one for Canada.

I tried living in the UK for several years before I defected to Canada

Friendly, happy people. Great education system, with none of the stress of the UK system. Great social supports for health and etc. Bigger houses and (my love) tumble dryers!

The west coast is warmer than the UK for the person who said it's too cold. Was 16C today where I live.

The UK is an attractive place, but most of UK society is horrible. Too many people in too small a country. over taxed, coarse and vulgar. IMO

Course and vulgar?! Not the words that spring to mind .

YANBU and I LOVE the Uk dearly. We left 3 years ago for Australia...I was worried it would be very uncultured etc. I'd heard horror stories about sexism and racism.

Couldn't have been more wrong. It's incredibly easy to get on here. My personal development and professional development have skyrocketed. There is more support for women professionally here than I EVER found in England.

People are open, friendly and kind.

I think anyone that can avoid being in the UK if there's no deal should grab the chance with both hands.

I'm so sad reading all the good stuff about the country. All of that will go out the window if the crisis is half as bad as we've been warned it'll be.

Canada is colder than the UK no?

No, not all of it. The bit that I live in is far colder than the UK, but the Okanagan, for example, is full of vineyards and peach orchards (groves? Whatever! ) NOT diverse, though, by any stretch of the imagination.

OP since your husband is from the US I assume he could sponsor. If you haven’t lived, I think it’s possibly the only place where you will have the diversity and tolerance you seek, along with better weather.

The black community in many Southern cities is tight-knit and supportive; you’ll find great middle-class black neighbourhoods filled with creatives from all industries. You’d love it for your kids and there’s nothing quite like it in other countries.

You’ll come at it from a place of privilege as you can afford a better community, a lot of the tension you read about are poor urban blacks living in generational poverty that’s just not an easy issue to solve. This is also (oddly) more of an issue in the Northern/Midwestern cities.

A lot of the police aggression/violence is a sad intersection between racism and poverty and probably would not affect your children as much in a more wealthy neighbourhood (although racial profiling would be a problem for them, but this would literally happen anywhere on the globe for them).

You should really look into Atlanta! It’s kind of a black cultural capital. Charlotte (any city in North Carolina, really) also has vibrant black communities.

Am I wrong for wanting to live in Kingston or Wimbledon, just because I want diversity doesn't mean I have to live in Peckham or some other stabbing hotbed in London 🙄

I grew up in London & have seen quite a lot of change in some areas. I have noticed there is a certain group of so called liberals who crow about how they love diversity etc as long as they are shielded from some of the perceived negative effects. Or how Brexit is all because of racism & if horrifies them but they are less bothered by the families that are displacing when they gentrify a new area & the closure of local businesses because people don’t want to buy their fruit & veg from the green grocer who’s been there years and prefer the new trendy shop as they have branded paper bags.

but most of UK society is horrible. Too many people in too small a country. over taxed, coarse and vulgar. IMO

Nothing like a sweeping, ridiculous statement, is there

Thank you PineapplePower will look into those cities I've only ever seen Atlanta on TV in those shows 😁. What you say is right profiling will be everywhere we go, something to unfortunately have to live with. It will always be there to some effect. But at least crime wise it will be minimised by default to a certain extent in some areas.

In the meantime we have another year and a half in the UK so we will see some effect of whatever happens with brexit. Hopefully all this confusion with rights will get sorted.

Overall currently I have

Manchester
Glasgow
Bristol
Lisbon
Atlanta
The Carolinas

Australia and NZ are just too far to visit family as often as we would like. Though I would like to visit on holiday just to see what it is like.

Re Spain, a white friend of a dd, who's married to a black African woman, lived there for some time, in a city, and they found the levels of racism towards his wife very upsetting.
They have since moved to a U.K. city (not London) where she feels considerably more comfortable.

Having lived in other countries for many years, must say I am surprised at the naïveté of people who think the UK is more racist than many places elsewhere, particularly mainland Europe.

As for the UAE, I've lived there, too, and I'm pretty sure you can't just emigrate there easily, unless you have a great deal of money. And that's leaving aside the ? of human rights, etc.

And the summers are ghastly. Most people who haven't lived with it, have no idea about that sort of heat. I had travelled widely before living there, including the likes of West Africa, and it still came as a shock.

Yes, that part of the world was a great place for younger children - even if we did escape the summers for 2 months every year - no fun going to the beach if the sand's hot enough to burn your feet - but we were glad to return to the UK once they were past primary age.

@fancynancyclancy having previously lived in one of these former council blocks, I would say that they are in need of upgrading and some knocking down and replacing with a new building.

Now gentrification is able to occur due to government failures compounded by socio-economic factors and capitalism, The London housing crisis is so complex. Families wouldnt be displaced if housing benefit wasn't being rooted out like its the plague. As well as other reasons I'm probably missing here.

Its not just 'liberals' its people who can afford and want certain things that are common to others popularise it and it becomes premium that's capitalism. We are not going to blame business people for spotting a gap in the market and providing a service. If there is a lack of affordable housing (whatever that means in London prices), persistence to protect the green belt--at all costs because people don't want their homes to be devalued. Councils consistently under funded and prevented legally from building homes if they don't meet certain criteria what can we expect.

There's nothing perceived about the young people falling victim to knife crime in the capital, its very real. But interestingly enough these attacks don't seem to happen in knightsbridge, Chelsea or Hampstead or any other affluent area of London.

My post wasn’t looking at reasons why these things happen but thanks anyway.

@Elloduckie I think you're wrong about these types of crimes not happening in affluent areas. Muswell Hill and Crouch end have been two of the areas hit the hardest by the moped muggings and associated violence. They aren't immune to the stabbings either.
www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/crime-court/teenager-stabbed-in-muswell-hill-1-5756016

I am a bit offended about some opinions about NZ. You obviously haven't lived here.
Sure, some Brits move to the very white pretty Devonport (Auckland suburb popular with British expats). But there is so much more. It's a young country rapidly changing.
And its not at all like Britain, and neither it wants to be! Don't flatter yourselves. That's history and imperialist nostalgia, nothing more.

DM me if you're considering Netherlands (I'm Dutch, DH is British, DD is both) - we moved back to here after 20 yrs in the UK. Quality of life is better, but it takes time to adjust to Dutch way of living. If you hang around expats, you won't integrate (and they eventually leave after a few years), things to consider.

antopodean I posted my thoughts on NZ based on family who used to live in London and moved there. They have found the racism and backwardness of the views very tough. My family who live in a rural village in England may have not noticed great differences. But OP is in London. NZ really is not a good choice of she loves London.

Go and live in Singapore.

I'm having a nightmare with MN constantly refreshing on my ipad so might have missed it

but unclear of the specifics OP - why you think the UK is not a good place to live anymore. I'm not saying yay or nay, just curious. My own experience of racism is so random and variable and partly dependent on who you meet on any given day, I find.

There is no time better to move than now - when you are young, career mobile, multi lingual and childless. The world is your oyster bar the hoops of immigration.

Where do your families live? Is that not a consideration? Where do the grandparents of your future children live? If you’re fortunate enough to work anywhere with an internet connection, I would still choose to live near close family personally. It’s people more than the location which makes any place a home.

Aside from that, Lisbon sounds good on the surface. It’s a capital city. You’ve lived there before so you know and like it. Plus, you can speak the language which would be the major stumbling block for most Brits (the MN demographic) as well as not having an EU passport after Brexit.