AIBU to think that the UK is no longer an attractive place to live

[Elloduckie]

NC here for this one. DH to be and I are getting married next year and we were looking to set up and be based here. But with everything going on, the UK does not seem that attractive to live.

Currently London based, we want/need to be somewhere that is diverse, have no patience bigotry etc. Though living in London doesn't make you immune from that!!

But to raise kids and work, it just doesn't seem like the UK is the place to be anymore. Does anyone else feel like this?
Thing is, we would we move to? Both are very mobile career wise and speak a few languages so that will not be an issue. Money wise should be fine too. Its literally a question of where else is good, diverse to raise kids and not colder than the UK (ruling out the Scandinavian countries).

Suggestions please..

I don't want to make this into yet another Brexit discussion: My point was merely that the claim that Brexit will mean Brits will no longer be able to live and work abroad is sheer nonsense.

@Lovelyflowerstoday not fluent, but I can manage. DH and kids do though. (We didn't speak the language when we got here and DC all born here, schooled locally etc).

In which case they are EU passport holders.

Well yes exactly IcedPurple, that's my point. What I mean is that some people might think, "Well she's American, but she's still working here in a semi-skilled job so it can't be that hard to get in." Because they don't realise that someone is actually an EU passport holder despite it not being obvious.

In which case they are EU passport holders.

Well yes exactly IcedPurple. What I mean is that some people might think, "Well she's American, but she's still working here in a semi-skilled job so it can't be that hard to get in." Because they don't realise that someone is actually an EU passport holder despite it not being obvious.

I'm non-EU who moved to the Continental EU, by the way. I didn't come for a partner. It's not exactly a rare occurrence, but it's uncommon enough that a lot of people have questioned me on how I managed it. It's just far more common to either come here for a relationship, or to already have EU citizenship.

IcedPurple
I don't want to make this into yet another Brexit discussion: My point was merely that the claim that Brexit will mean Brits will no longer be able to live and work abroad is sheer nonsense.

You're quite right but please don't bring reality into a discussion about Brexit, the Remainers can't handle it.

It's not exactly a rare occurrence, but it's uncommon enough that a lot of people have questioned me on how I managed it.

It might be uncommon in your experience but it isn't in mine.

Anyway, as I've said, most Brits who work abroad prefer not to go to the EU, so even if not a single Brit gets to live in the EU post Brexit, there's a whole world out there which remains unaffected, despite what some on this thread seem to think.

if you do not want to be here then go somewhere else what is your problem its your choice

IcedPurple 1.3 million British citizens live in other EU countries.

How is 1300000 people hardly any?

blueskies they thought b their children wouldn't need to work in the EU once the immigrants went home or when we time travelled back to the 1800's, they could just go and live it up in the Caribbean and India instead and relive the days of the British Empire.

Roughly 1.2 million live in Australia and 1.3 million in the USA and Canada combined.

So similar numbers.

Why cut off easy access to job markets and unlimited right to live in the EU. Its a self destructive thing to do. The thought process of it not mattering because other places exist is totally illogical - skin to chopping your left hand off for no other reason than you prefer the right.

your choice your shout

you either do or you dont stop threatening x

give your British passport up and move on if that is how you feel...thought not lol

Nicholas22 who are you talking to? Are you capable of engaging with comments made or do you always just walk into rooms with your hands over your ears shouting?

noodlenosefraggle perhaps. The reply is always absent, or a repetition of a mantra without addressing salient points, or simply a refusal to discuss when questions are asked...

People who are being so blasée about how easy it is to immigrate are only proof of what a great job the EU has done at breaking down barriers.

Try being my Japanese friend who has to present herself to the French authorities and queue for hours every year to renew her permit to remain in the country despite her husband’s lucrative job.

Or my Ukrainian friend who depends for his construction job on the Polish overseer who can arrange Polish visas and takes a huge cut off his wages.

Or my British friend who spent two years and thousands of pounds in order for his South African wife to be able to come live with him.

Or my French friend who tried to employ a Chilean but was redirected by the French authorities to the job centre so she could employ many of the (fictional) French people waiting to be employed instead.

IcedPurple yes, impossible to work in America - unless you are top of your field and internationally well known. They have their own home-grown talent, so work visas are not obtainable. The available jobs are in the EU.

@Ifangyow casual racism isn't usually projected by out and out racists. It's spouted by careless thoughtless everyday majority races (let's be frank here, in Europe, white people are the majority race), who consider the minority to be odd ("they call their kids funky names, they cook with different foods, they live in poor areas, they come from developing countries, they do menial jobs, they don't go to university, blah blah blah"). This happens regularly in Germany. You don't know if your family hasn't ever said some casually racist phrase or implied something to a minority race person. You yourself have stated a generalisation to say that no such thing has ever been said by your family. My understanding is that a majority race finds it hard to understand that racism is a daily occurrence, not a one off event, but a daily chipping and erosion of another race's identity and value. This does happen in Germany, and unless you have experienced it, you are not in a position to quibble. Do you have a black friend (who also considers you a close enough friend) that you could ask about casual racism? You really have to listen to them, let them talk and not try to whitewash their experiences. Be a minority at a mealtime (be the only white person amongst a family group of black or Asian people) and let them talk, casual racism will come up as a topic. Have you ever done that? Regularly? Hear their experiences and tried to understand their pain?

@OP I would suggest that your DH asks fellow black colleagues and friends where they have lived and where they would suggest. Because let's be honest, here on MN the average user is unlikely to have experienced daily racism. Let's be honest. Many may have experienced it second hand through husbands or children, but themselves daily? Yearly? Abroad and here? Doubtful. The thread speaks for itself.

There was some talk previously about racism in New Zealand.

Yes, there is racism in New Zealand, and racists, as there are everywhere.

A lot of it has parallels to racism over here. Strong immigration, particularly of clearly 'other' groups - e.g Chinese, Japanese, Indian. A feeling that immigration has been the cause of overcrowding and a housing crisis, that 'they've taken our jobs' (never mind that we can't get people to do those jobs for love nor money). I have Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Indian friends who have told me how they have been shouted at, spat at and shoved in the street. It made me sick. Then again, I have Muslim friends who are NZ born of many generations, who have been similarly abused as terrorists, and told to fuck off to their own country.

Then there's Maori and Pasifika. I have heard tell of the racism and prejudice they face. There are stereotypes of them being fat, dumb, lazy, and violent. I have actually heard those stereotypes propounded by people over here, who have never even BEEN to NZ, let alone met a Maori or Pacific Islander. Interestingly enough, a lot of the racism directed against these people that I have heard, is from immigrants to New Zealand, (not least British immigrants), who cannot, and will not, understand and accept the unique position of the Maori as the Indigenous people of NZ, and Treaty Partner to the Crown, who rail against the use and promotion of Te Reo (Maori Language) and customs etc in mainstream NZ culture, e.g. in schools, on the radio, in Government institutions etc.

So yup, there is definitely racism and racists in NZ. There are also a lot of people who do not like racism and racists, and who speak out against it when they see it and hear it. A bit like here, I guess. . .

It's impossible to get work visas for America, Canada or Europe? Are you serious?

Canada is very difficult. You have to be the right age and have the right qualifications—not just a good degree, but specialist skills in jobs that are needed right now.