AIBU to think that the UK is no longer an attractive place to live

[Elloduckie]

NC here for this one. DH to be and I are getting married next year and we were looking to set up and be based here. But with everything going on, the UK does not seem that attractive to live.

Currently London based, we want/need to be somewhere that is diverse, have no patience bigotry etc. Though living in London doesn't make you immune from that!!

But to raise kids and work, it just doesn't seem like the UK is the place to be anymore. Does anyone else feel like this?
Thing is, we would we move to? Both are very mobile career wise and speak a few languages so that will not be an issue. Money wise should be fine too. Its literally a question of where else is good, diverse to raise kids and not colder than the UK (ruling out the Scandinavian countries).

Suggestions please..

What are posters going on about the Japanese? It’s quite well known that as a society they are very racist, mainly against Korean, Chinese and Filipino people. Why would anyone think that the Japanese are in some way allowed to get that whereas the British are victimized for their racism?

Anyway the whole thing is academic, all our children will be climate migrants, moving in the most desperate conditions. If I was the inhabitant of an island I’d want everyone to have a really really positive view on immigration!

small island in Scotland

You do realise that is still in the UK.

For the moment.....

I dont think anybody said there is no racism in the UK?

As the OP seems to be asking for suggestions for places without rampant bigotry, it has to be said that the UK has statistially been shown to be the least racist in Europe if not the world, depending on deciding factors. A couple of recent ones here-

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/?utm_term=.c2e8b97de046

theconversation.com/this-map-shows-what-white-europeans-associate-with-race-and-it-makes-for-uncomfortable-reading-76661?

The article you link to is from 2013. You honestly think Brexit has not had an effect on racism and zenophobia in the U.K.?

Backwoodsgirl
You say that the US has the death penalty, it does not. Only some states do.

Yes, I was aware that some states didn't but didn't know which or how many. I just googled and 31 states DO have the death penalty, so the majority.

The death penalty laws are much more complex. The crimes eligible for the death penalty differ by state. Some of the 31 states have left it but never use it. Other states do use it.

One from 2013 then one from 2017, which was my point. Xenophobia has risen, but its still the lowest in the EU.

@sleepwhen & @elloduckie I spent nearly nine years in the Netherlands and returned to Australia two years ago. When I started there, I found it idyllic. The longer I was there, the more racist I realised the place actually was. They like to have a perception to the outside world that they are “tolerant”, but that means that they have to put up with other people, but it doesn’t mean that they ever accept them. They have words like “Autochtoon” and “Allochtoon” to separate how they describe their looks, based on skin colour and racial appearance, etc. Then there’s the whole Zwarte Piet myth. Ew. I have been told so many times that I am “Not as foreign as other foreigners” because I am white and blonde, and when we showed our ID cards to a guy at customs, he waved us through with a cheery, “It’s okay, you all have blue eyes....” It’s not the open-minded idyll they sell the world, and being a very “Direkt” speaking nation, they don’t hold back!

We always thought we’d live in London forever. Loved the multicultural, open, welcoming atmosphere.

No way we’ll stay in post-Brexit Little Britain. Luckily our businesses are mobile, and we all have dual EU/British passports. Just working out where best to transfer our assets. As for schools, our DCs will get a much more solid education elsewhere in Europe - that’s actually on our list of “Brexit dividends”.

Also bullying is a major issue in Dutch schools. It’s a major issue in Dutch culture. The more they say something “isn’t” a thing, the more it is, in my experience.

Fl0w3r I have done both. Neither are as idyllic as one might initially suspect. As justilou1 says - The Netherlands has "undertones" you only really see after many years - same as her. I moved to paradise - after 15 years I legged it - and I'm your blue-eyed blonde too. As for the islands - given most of you can't cope outside the north circular, you probably ought give them a swerve.

Tbh isn't it good to criticise racism wherever it may be? The uk my not be as racist as Camberra or Tokyo or whatever but that disn't mean we shoulf call it out.
Managed immigration is good for the economy, the culture and the gene pool.

The planet is getting smaller and some people cannot cope with that but to survive and tgrive in today's globslised world the winners will be the ones who accept diversity and harness the good in it. Insular racist types aren't coping.

Shouldn't call it out even...

If you're referring to my posts - I can't really comment on racism because I've not experienced it so I daren't dismiss the views of those who have. I am however referring to the fact that many on this thread (and site) seem to think that London is the only place on the planet with cafes/museums/arts/blah-di-blah and that everywhere else [tm] is just an ocado-unenriched dust-bowl filled with moral turpitude and sub-optimal IQ scores.

So my observations on both NL and Scottish islands is that neither will compare to the mecca which is London - and that cultural, linguistic, legal and all other differences can be trying - race aside.

- how are they free to leave? We won't have the "freedom" to leave to go anywhere else to live/work.

Yes, because Britain is going to turn into North Korea just because freedom of movement with a small minority of the world's countries will come to an end?

Yes, because Britain is going to turn into North Korea just because freedom of movement with a small minority of the world's countries will come to an end?

Also, don’t forget, visas will cease to exist and Britain will be like the mafia, once you’re in, you’re in.

Also, don’t forget, visas will cease to exist and Britain will be like the mafia, once you’re in, you’re in

Amazing, isn't it?

The vast majority of the world's nations - including prosporous countries like Australia, Canada, the USA etc - do not have 'freedom of movement' with a block of other nations. Yet their citizens get by fine and even manage to live and work abroad sometimes. I guess some people have never heard of those exotic concepts - 'visas' and 'work permits'?

I'm not being goady, I'm genuinely curious. As I said, I couldn't get enough points for Australia, so I couldn't go - despite having a PhD and being qualified in my field. I know several Australians and New Zealanders - when their (is it a two-year visa) runs out, they have had to go home again. I know someone looking for a highly skilled and trained job in Europe or America. America and Canada, it is impossible to get a work visa. In Europe many stipulate they can only consider EU passport holders. Companies don't want to have to pay for visas or work permits for any staff. They also need to justify why they are taking that employee above one of their own citizens. Why would they, when they've got all EU citizens to pick from? Only the very highest-paying jobs might do that - finance companies, etc.

I love London and I love the rest of the UK that we have access to, bus family, holidays, days out.

I love walking over Waterloo bridge at night, my local community (very friendly, supportive and well networked), the diversity, the grittiness that saves it from ShowHome tweeness that some smaller cities have.

London state schools outperform state schools elsewhere, my kids have been educated in the Comprehensive system and are well supported and high achieving alongside others with very different needs and backgrounds.

I love the fact that accents change within a half hour drive, that we still have a huge range of regional recipe variations for bread, pies, pork products and root veg.

I love our tolerance, quirky self deprecating SOH.

Times are set to be hard, as they are in many countries, actually. But for those who are only here for the money you can earn and can pick freely from your Blue Chip job in NYC, Singapore, Saudi, Dubai, HK or Texas et al, well, no one’s keeping you.

Before the last election, all the major parties made it very clear that they wouldn't enter into a coalition with the PVV.

I never thought I'd see the day that the Tories formed a coalition with the DUP, but there you go.

Sorry, 'coalition' wasn't the correct term re: DUP but the effects are pretty much the same.

I know someone looking for a highly skilled and trained job in Europe or America. America and Canada, it is impossible to get a work visa.

It's impossible to get work visas for America, Canada or Europe? Are you serious?

Clearly your friend doesn't have skills which are in demand in any of these countries. However, if you do, it is by no means impossible to get a work visa. Many thousands of people are in possession of such visas.

In Europe many stipulate they can only consider EU passport holders. Companies don't want to have to pay for visas or work permits for any staff.

But there are many many non EU passport holders working in the EU. And not only in the most elite professions.

But yes, Brexit will likely mean it's more difficult for Brits to work in the EU, but that's a very different thing from saying "We won't have the "freedom" to leave to go anywhere else to live/work." More British people choose Australia or the USA than any European country to emigrate to, and Brexit will have zero effect on that. Then there's the rest of the world....

But there are many many non EU passport holders working in the EU. And not only in the most elite professions.

Well yeah, but almost all of the ones I know are partners/ex-partners of EU nationals. Or they have dual nationality through a parent, so while they are Australian/Canadian/American/whatever, they also have an Irish/French/whatever passport.

Or they have dual nationality through a parent, so while they are Australian/Canadian/American/whatever, they also have an Irish/French/whatever passport.

In which case they are EU passport holders.

I think the incomprehensible thing to most of us is why cut yourself and your children and grandchildren off from opportunity? Cutting off free access to living and working in the EU doesn't make it easier to live and work in Australia and America etc. Freedom of movement means freedom of opportunity, why cut your nose off to spite your face?