AIBU to think that the UK is no longer an attractive place to live

[Elloduckie]

NC here for this one. DH to be and I are getting married next year and we were looking to set up and be based here. But with everything going on, the UK does not seem that attractive to live.

Currently London based, we want/need to be somewhere that is diverse, have no patience bigotry etc. Though living in London doesn't make you immune from that!!

But to raise kids and work, it just doesn't seem like the UK is the place to be anymore. Does anyone else feel like this?
Thing is, we would we move to? Both are very mobile career wise and speak a few languages so that will not be an issue. Money wise should be fine too. Its literally a question of where else is good, diverse to raise kids and not colder than the UK (ruling out the Scandinavian countries).

Suggestions please..

mama DH is Danish and yes, they are very nationalistic with a strong tone of racism and what I hope is ignorance. If I was a black person it's the last place I'd move to.

I think what backwoodgirl is experiencing is middle class American life which has a much higher standard of living compared to British middle class standards of living.

It's easy to scoff at people like backwoodgirl but the reality is that the US has vastly more opportunities for people like them. For my family, yes my standard of living would drop but it would be marginal. Right now where I live is probably equivalent to Clapham. If we lived in England I would be heading back to a large home the NW, not working a job, just my business and spend much of my day running DC to school etc. For me that is a drop in living standards.

@Want2b Yeah. I do believe most of it is just cultural differences. While actual racists exist, I recon most are not despite the culture. Danes make fun of everyone, meaning: sexist jokes, racist jokes, homophobic jokes etc. are all tolerated here. It very much depends on how you're raised I think, I'm a lesbian and homophobic jokes don't faze me whatsoever, hell I even make them. But people from other cultures are often not raised like us, blunt with little filter. Sometimes people from different cultures are just not compatible.

You can't just move to another country to live. Post-Brexit it's likely you won't be able to work/live in the EU unless you get some sort of work visa - prove you're better at doing the job more than anyone else in the EU, or whatever system is instigated. Or do you have EU citizenship? Australia, Canada etc, have a rigid points system. Will you qualify? I looked at moving to Australia a few years ago, but didn't qualify, so that was out.

Yes a lot of northern eurpean countries have lots going for them, but they will tend to pay more tax for the better services (something which I would support here but cnt see happening). The idea that they're liberal utopias is misguided at best. UK is still the least racist country in the EU.

mama DH is Danish and yes, they are very nationalistic with a strong tone of racism and what I hope is ignorance. If I was a black person it's the last place I'd move to.

As I said @want2besupermum people are deluded and VERY naive of they think other countries will be better than the UK for diversity and equality etc..............

As someone said earlier in the thread, many people seem to romanticise living abroad/moving abroad, but the truth is that for the vast majority of people, it will be no better, (and for some people, considerably worse.)

I know 7 instances (just this past 6-7 years,) of people who moved abroad; to Australia, America, Canada, Spain, France, Germany, and Turkey. 4 of them have come back since, (as it wasn't the shiny and fun picnic they were expecting,) and only one of the 7 is actually happy. The one who went to Canada.

The thing is, when you're on holiday somewhere, it's lovely; you have no worries, no responsibilities, no job or work, and surplus money to spend. (And everyone is nice to you because you're a tourist, and you are their bread and butter!) It's QUITE different when you live there! And you will find the natives are not quite as friendly and nice to you then!!!

As I said, people are deluded if they think the biogtry and racism in other countries is going to be any less than in the UK.

Personally, I wouldn't live in America in a million years. I actually feel sorry for anyone who lives there. Got to be the worst country to live in the western world. (For SO many reasons.) I'd rather live in a shed under a motorway bridge.

Takes the prize for being the most ignorant and snidey comment on Mumsnet today. 

Where have you lived in the States @newnameforthis7 ?

Every single one of my friends and family in the UK have said that I've fallen on my feet moving to where I've moved in the US and they'd all move here in a heartbeat if they could.

And attitudes like yours are largely why you couldn't drag me back to live in the UK kicking or screaming.

Yes Want2beSuperman, I've heard some hair raising things from my danish relatives about black people as well,

I have Swedish relatives and have heard some similar comments. And they're supposedly left leaning.

At our wedding for our guests we had a bunch of Danes from DHs side. From my side there were Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddists who are British, French, German, Hungarian, Swedish, South Korean, Japanese, Indian, Pakistani, Greek, Egyptian, Americans, Russians, Poles and a Romanian.

I grew up in the Uk and DH grew up in socialist utopia Denmark. If you are looking for diversity I would suggest you consider doing what it takes to be in the upper middle class socioeconomic group.

Oh and I left out my two good friends who are Nigerian and Zambian who also came to our wedding.

Honestly the Danish side was a sea of white faces and mousy coloured hair!!!!!

Yes a lot of northern eurpean countries have lots going for them, but they will tend to pay more tax for the better services (something which I would support here but cnt see happening). The idea that they're liberal utopias is misguided at best. UK is still the least racist country in the EU

I agree. When I hear people complain about how racist the UK is and how wonderful 'Europe' is, I do wonder if they've spent much time there apart from brief holidays when everything is rose tinted.

As for Denmark and Scandinavia, my impression is that these are very different societies from the UK, even if superficially they seem quite similar. They are highly nationalistic - much more so than the UK - and quite parochial. Yes, they do have good social welfare - though some would argue that what they get isn't really that high quality bearing in mind the extremely high tax rates - but they seem rather drab places imo. I prefer the individualism of the British lifestyle, for all its faults.

Why do people become so defensive at the slightest criticism of their country? Statistically there has been a huge increase in zenophobia, nationalism and racism in the UK. Refusing to accept this is not going to help reverse the trend.

By the way I am Greek and happy to say that no one should move to Greece. It’s a desperate disaster of a country, with no prospects for anyone young, no support for anyone old and an insane electorate who voted in both the extreme right and the extreme left. Also racist.

Why do people become so defensive at the slightest criticism of their country?

I think you will find it is more the insinuation that london and Greater London are some sort of eutopia whilst the rest of the country is awful with no diversity.

It isn't true.

@WitchesWeb bollocks. There are some really vicious and xenophobic people on this thread. Most NOT from London.

Why do people become so defensive at the slightest criticism of their country?

The UK is one of the most diverse countries in the world. And yet, we are not good enough at it. No one haranagues the Japanese as small minded island dwelling xenophobes, but us - despite our already very diverse country (white British not a majority in the capital city) well, we're easy targets.

ElonMusk why do you feel like an easy target? Who is targeting you? My country of origin is embarrassingly racist and is dealing with immigrants in a way that should shame us for generations to come. The village where I live in France voted 70% for the FN. You cannot overcome racism without first acknowledging it. Greeks love nothing more than basking in the glory of our ancient ancestors, which helps us avoid looking at our shitty present.

I used to live in rural northern Britain. It was a racist place to live. Most people knew that racism was not socially acceptable but at periods of tension it came out. At pre-election times discussions, from Michael Howard’s electoral run onwards, focused on the evils of immigrants. The discussion would go on for a while before someone would ‘thoughtfully’ say “of course we don’t mean you dear”.

@Booboostwo Nail on the head there about overcoming racism.

For those who made comments regarding affluence. Having money only takes you so far and it doesn't change people attitudes towards you if they're racist. You just become a wealthy insert explitive. Sitting on the tube towards, I took the time to look at the different faces in the carriage and coinsidentially it was ever colour and creed. It is true London for all its faults is a very unique place that can have such a microcosm. I showed future DH this thread, and our eyes have definitely been opened so thank you very much for all your comments.

If we are to set up in Lisbon permanently it would be with the view to integrate and create jobs whilst we are at it, not just to stay in the enclaves of all things expat. As for other places, we intend for if to be the same.

Please excuse typos, writing in the cold here.

witches is pointing out something I've noticed on many threads on here. Londoners talking about diversity yet having no idea about other places in their own country. As if outside the M25 there are no cities, no culture, no black or Asian people, and they couldn't possibly associate with people who are clearly thick and racist because they werent clever enough to live in London.

You won’t be an expat, you would be an immigrant if you’re self relocating to Lisbon for a “better” life. I know it’s pedantic but let’s call a spade a spade - self relocating to Lisbon, you’ll be an immigrant which is not a dirty word!

The OP hasn’t answered why she can only stay in London for another year and a half. If you have multiple nationalities other than British (on the assumption that you are a Brit) why not just say so - it would certainly allow more relevant suggestions.

Furthermore, nowhere on the thread does the OP say that she/her DP hold US citizenship in order to be able to move there. If they do, I would say that it is extremely difficult to run a business or indeed, live outside the US for American citizens. DH had dual US/UK nationality due to being born there to a US mum & Eng dad. He left as a baby and nearly 50 yrs later, he has had to renounce his US citizenship because it’s basically incompatible with living/working in the U.K. (A tortuous subject for another thread!)

TBH I think it's more people taking incredibly quick and LOUD offence to anything that could possibly in any way be twisted, bent, stretched and mutilated into some kind of criticism of anywhere outside London.

It's pretty boring to non-Londoners who don't have a massive chip on their shoulder about London.

I've lived in a fair few UK cities and none come close to London If I'm honest.

OP, will you have the right to live/work in Portugal, though?