AIBU to think that the UK is no longer an attractive place to live

[Elloduckie]

NC here for this one. DH to be and I are getting married next year and we were looking to set up and be based here. But with everything going on, the UK does not seem that attractive to live.

Currently London based, we want/need to be somewhere that is diverse, have no patience bigotry etc. Though living in London doesn't make you immune from that!!

But to raise kids and work, it just doesn't seem like the UK is the place to be anymore. Does anyone else feel like this?
Thing is, we would we move to? Both are very mobile career wise and speak a few languages so that will not be an issue. Money wise should be fine too. Its literally a question of where else is good, diverse to raise kids and not colder than the UK (ruling out the Scandinavian countries).

Suggestions please..

Also it is a bit... self-centred, I suppose, to think one has the right to drift around the world cherry picking what suits you the best and have no investment in any particular place and then to move on when it begins to displease you

I totally agree with this - people like fucking Jamie Oliver claiming he's off if Brexit happens. I stuck it out here during the Thatcher years when the whole country seemed to have gone mental electing a party to trash most of our communities - because I value this place, even when it does things I don't agree with. The global fair-weather tourists can fuck off somewhere else with my blessing.

@elloduckie we live just outside Lisbon on the coast and live it here. Very international, I have been pleased with schools, lots to do socially and a great quality of life.

It is however expensive in the little international bubble.

@Elloduckie - Lisbon is very very similar to Amsterdam in terms of 'if you are that way inclined'

people like fucking Jamie Oliver claiming he's off if Brexit happens.

Let me know when he gets around to leaving. I'll happily drive him to the airport if he's stuck for a lift.

It is however expensive in the little international bubble.

Aha, so not that keen to mix with the locals then, eh? What is the difference between this and being a Costa del Sol Sun-reading pensioner sitting in the Union Jack Bar? Yes, it's because if you're middle-class and educated you are international and therefore quite different

Isn't Lisbon positioning itself as the new Monaco? By which I mean offering favourable tax rates to the rich and famous. Or are we to believe that Madonna et al just fell in love with Portuguese culture?

It is however expensive in the little international bubble.

Is that code for we don't intergrate into Portugese life?

My friend posted this this morning.

www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jan/31/lisbons-bad-week-police-brutality-reveals-portugals-urban-reality

He's black and from Portugal. Left to come to the UK.

What is the difference between this and being a Costa del Sol Sun-reading pensioner sitting in the Union Jack Bar?

The former would be a pleasant environment. The latter would be bloody awful

Greatest Country in the world = UK
Greatest City in the world = London
Just wish we could Remain but in the long run it won't matter because:
Greatest People in the world = The Brits

IrmaFaye and Witchesweb no, it's code for my DH was posted here and his 'employer' housed us in a property of their choosing. I wouldn't choose to live in this particular area myself as I already speak Portuguese and Spanish and would prefer to be more central but I don't get any choice. It's not a comment on the historic or current policies and Politics of Central Portugal per se just a 'this small town seems to tick some boxes'.

I am merely replying to what I understood the OP to be after and it sprang to mind as my DD went to an after school activity yesterday with lots of Portuguese kids, a few Brazilian and Angolan kids, a Romanian girl, 2 Germans and a few I don't know which seems pretty multicultural.

I am a proud London and generally enjoy living here. I have my days where I think 'wouldn't it be nice to live in a big house in the middle of nowhere..'. But the reality of that would not suit me.

I'd like to live in Vancouver, Canada at some point. It's a lovely city and I think a nicer / cleaner space to raise a family.

I forgot to say that expensive refers to my shopping in lidl being a 3rd more than in the UK and that petrol is expensive, and that utilities are dear, if that's a consideration for the OP.

Of course my diamond shoes and gold carriage are also a bastard expense.

I would agree that London is the best city in the world. But saying the best people in the world are the Brits is a bit

Unhinged? Thank you! I meant personal investment, not buying a car, fgs.

No, I don't think the OP and her ilk on this thread do sound as if they care two hoots about the country they might move to. No interest in the history, culture, people... No real desire to build a community. Just a place to exist - hopefully in the company of people exactly like them - until they spot somewhere else more favourable and they can move on.

The super rich do this. No roots. They move around the world - healthcare in Houston, multiple properties in London, schooling wherever... And a complete disregard for anyone or anything outside metropolitan areas.

My grandfather was a Jew who came to the UK during WW2. He happily gave the UK government his ships (he had a fleet of 15 ships) and ran supplies across the Atlantic in exchange for his freedom. He was sunk 3 times. My grandfather was forever thankful for the British protecting him and allowing him to call England home (he was told he had to live in Liverpool so called himself English!). He always said that you can tell how good a country is by how they treat those in need of help. Life happens and sometimes you end up in a position which is beyond your control. Not all of my grandfathers family made it out of Greece and Cyprus. Some did make it to Israel and others ended up in concentration camps trying to make the journey to safety.

The real test of how good a country the UK was is evident through the success of the family who did make it through to the UK and where they are today vs the families that ended up in Israel. In every single case the British families have all done really well for themselves in the first and 2nd generation. Us 3rd generation haven't done so well. I have 2 cousins who can't hold a job down (they are very entitled and just not willing to put in the work) and it's only been one cousin, my siblings and I who have been successful professionally. My fathers cousins have all been extremely successful from owning business that were profitable to being squadron leader (or whatever the official title is) of the red arrows back in the day with an accomplished film director too. Their DC just have not achieved anything close to the success of their parents. This all makes it abundantly clear that yes the UK isn't the country it was. Instead of complaining and acting like a demonstrative toddler do something about it. Get involved.

I moved away with the intention to return. I haven't because I married an expat (yes he is really an expat and not an immigrant) and the opportunities available for our family here are greater than they are in England. While living abroad I still do what I can to support the community I was raised in. I've been able to buy/build homes for families to rent who reply on housing benefits enabling them to live in the community they grew up in, close to grandparents. I'm always listening to friends and helping them be heard. It might not be much but I meet with the community elderly care team and raised the lack of funding with our MP. It did result in more funding which enabled them to complete a couple of projects to help the elderly community in my hometown. I also donated the equipment to build the local playground after a good bonus year. Kids need somewhere to play and the council wasn't going to provide it because they didn't have funding for the equipment. I still hope we can move back before the DC are finished with their childhood because I want my DC to really understand humour, be exposed to the arts and be allowed to be eccentric without being called weird.

Think carefully about what you have and think carefully about where you want to end up. Every single country has their problems. Be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

You can do a questionnaire on the Canadian government website to see if you would qualify for emigration—it's a points system. It's quite tough. I wouldn't be allowed back if I hadn't been born there!

I didn't make the points and my mother is a native Canadian. I do have a tumble dryer though so maybe that will improve my rating?

OP How about Brussels? There'll be a few cheap former British MEPs' properties up for sale soon...

Or, as you both speak Portuguese, how about Brazil?

Actually, I too would consider Bristol in terms of aesthetics and diversity.

Can't think of anywhere else beginning with Br.

I'm puzzled by the desire to live somewhere diverse, but then you want to move to Wimbledon or Kingston. Both quite expensive, both therefore largely have monied inhabitants, or inhabitants that have been there for a while (so probably white working class). Are you really after diversity? I don't think so, more looking to avoid racism, but happy with class / income polarisation.

I'm not having a go, just pointing out a difference that may affect your ideal location. An expat style life might suit you.

Key things to consider:
Ease to visit family and friends. I don't think you've said where family are, if you have kids being able to visit easily and cheaply is important.
Language (English, Portuguese and French?)
Preferred climate
Ability to actually work there (is your skill set in demand? You haven't said what you do)

Some thoughts:
I know people in South Africa and Brasil which have a good life. But the gated community / private leisure centre life and threat of violence is not for me.
Many people work for London based organisations but live in Lisbon, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam or near an airport.

Alternatively the carribean has some opportunities for finance jobs.
Depending on your skillset Asia may have some possibilities. Singapore might suit you?

@DustyParadeGround

Greatest City in the UK = London IN ........ MY OPINION!

Fixed that for you.

IcedPurple Fri 01-Feb-19 12:42:58

people like fucking Jamie Oliver claiming he's off if Brexit happens

Let me know when he gets around to leaving. I'll happily drive him to the airport if he's stuck for a lift

I hope all the Brexit confusion is dealt within that time, it feels like it's been dragging on forever. While it has emboldened some, everywhere has it's issues and assholes that have to consider with the benefits and community. Personally, I think there are many lovely parts of the UK that are great places to live and while I'm not really a fan of big cities, I think there are plenty of smaller cities like some parts of Nottingham, Derby, Sheffield, and so on that have a lot of diversity and options even where they're currently taking a funding kicking. It would like a lot for me to return to the US, ever.

In the talk about crime levels, they are more associated with high population density and high income inequality than poverty. Areas with where everyone has a low income (or a high one) tend to have significantly lower crime rates than areas where there is large clear difference between the richest parts and poorest parts. There are plenty of stats on crime and the Gini coefficient of different areas online if that's a priority.

Affluent areas may have more enforcement and tend to be less densely populated, but they also have more PR that brings this idea that attacks or other issues aren't happening there. I've known affluent schools, in the US and the UK, that end up sending a not insignificant number of students to "other services" or just entirely covering up drug use and other crimes because as long as the school and area can keep their image, actually dealing with the issues isn't a priority. Funding can be a big part of why things aren't be tackled, but it's not the only factor. I mean, look at what is currently going on at Warwick or the Stanford rapist who graduated from a high school well known for its affluence and covering up major issues in the name of their image. I wouldn't rely on an area being monied as to either continue to be that way or for that to be any determining factor in the schools or community's ethics.

Also Europe. One homogenous mass of liberal-leaning Europhiles who love children. NOT !!!!!!!!! It beggars belief how a not insignificant number of posters just see stereotypes and have absolutely no idea what other countries are actually like, how they operate, their economies etc etc. Yes thanks for encapsulating what I think. Also that people like Guy Verhofstadt are lovely and want the best for everyone. I'm a remainer but I hate all that guff.

The OP is looking for a diverse community

Suggests she plans to have some personal investment in the country in question!

My mother was born in Italy in 1933, under Mussolini's rule. She came to Britain.
My father was born in a Gaeltacht in the poorest part of Ireland. There was him, four siblings, parents and grandparents living in a one room shack. He came to Britain.
DP's parents were both born in the Warsaw ghettos and were both taken to concentration camps as children. They saw many family members die there. After the camps were liberated, they were taken to England with their surviving family.
This country may not be perfect by any means but people come here because, both then and now, it is preferable to so many other places.