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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand why Prince Harry’s child...

133 replies

WellingtonPark · 28/01/2019 14:20

...won’t be given the title of prince or princess?

Apparently PH and MM’s child will be given a lord or lady title instead.

Why is that? Beatrice and Eugenia are princesses after all.

Or will the child be bumped up to prince/princess when the queen dies?

OP posts:
LadyandGent · 28/01/2019 14:23

I don't know why either but I remember seeing it mentioned on the news when the pregnancy was announced.
Incidentally, Kate isn't a princess, she's a duchess, as is Meghan.
So it's only Kate's girl Charlotte who is a princess these days.

sparepantsandtoothbrush · 28/01/2019 14:24

www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5424673/meghan-harry-royal-baby-prince-princess

All explained there! Beatrice and Eugenie are grandchildren of the Queen not great-grandchildren

AutumnCrow · 28/01/2019 14:24

I think it's something to do with eldest son of the eldest son of the monarch. Possibly letters patent involved on the first full moon after the vernal equinox.

BethCunningham · 28/01/2019 14:24

will be upgraded when the queen dies. The law is only the eldest son of the eldest son of the prince of wales - so prince george currently. The queen stepped in to make a new law allowing all the cambridge children to be HRH Prince/Princess.

Chances are she offered it to H&M but they have refused, like Princess Anne did for her kids, likewise Prince Andrew's kids, to allow them to be more normal as they will not be the main royal line eventually.

Lokisglowstickofdestiny · 28/01/2019 14:25

I thought H & M said they didn't want titles, I might be getting them mixed up with someone else though.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 28/01/2019 14:25

Because they are great grandchildren of the monarch. B and E were grandchildren and when born were much further up the line of succession

LadyandGent · 28/01/2019 14:25

Also, when what's his name, God, why can't I think of it - Diana's first son, becomes king, will Kate become queen, or remain a Duchess.
It's quite confusing really.

MynameisJune · 28/01/2019 14:25

It’s only the first born son of the first born son (William) whose children can be prince/princesses. The Queen gave the title to Andrew’s children and has I think offered the same to Harry but they have said no. Same with Edward’s children, he declined the titles for Lady/Lord instead.

AutumnCrow · 28/01/2019 14:25

Isn't Kate also The Princess William if she wants?

lalalalyra · 28/01/2019 14:26

The child will be bumped up to Prince/Princess when Charles becomes King. The Queen might actually decide to make them Prince/Princess just now, it'll depend on Harry and Meghan's view on that.

Only the grandchildren of the monarch on male line, plus the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales are automatically entitled to the HRH Prince/ss title. The Queen issued letters patent to allow all of Prince William's children to be equally titled - probably to avoid the outcry that would have been involved had George been a girl and titled Lady then having ayounger brother.

BethCunningham · 28/01/2019 14:27

sorry, meant prince edward's kids. Andrew's are obviously princesses and andrew will not let us forget that in a hurry!!

and kate is a princess, she is Princess William, she just uses a secondary title - duchess of cambridge.

Same as Camilla is the princess of wales, no matter how much the diana-ites refuse to acknowledge it, she just uses another title that she is intitled to - duchess of cornwall (prince charles holds the title duke of cornwall amongst others)

lalalalyra · 28/01/2019 14:28

Andrew's daughters were automatically HRH Princesses. He didn't choose the title. Edward's children were also automatically entitled to be HRH Princess Louise and HRH Prince James, but they decided to have them titled as children of an Earl instead.

When William becomes King Kate will be the Queen consort.

BethCunningham · 28/01/2019 14:29

lady yes she will become Queen Catherine when William is king. Technically a Queen Consort rather than a Queen Regent. this is as a king 'outranks' a queen - hence Prince Philip is a prince/duke of edinburgh but Camilla and then Kate will be Queens

Stinkytoe · 28/01/2019 14:29

Kate will never been Princess Catherine, she’s currently Princess William and of William becomes the Rince of Wales she will be Catherine, Princess of Wales. I think she will be Queen Catherine when William becomes King though.

x2boys · 28/01/2019 14:30

I think its because Harry is the Grandson of the monarch rather than Son?

altiara · 28/01/2019 14:30

Don’t think it’s comparable to Beatrice and Eugenie? They’re granddaughters of the Queen. This baby will be a great grandchild.
Kate is a princess by marriage, can’t remember exactly how you have to say it, think you have to take Williams title into it. Kate and Williams third child wasn’t supposed to be a prince but the queen did some kind of promotion for him!

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking · 28/01/2019 14:30

Because in Letters Patent only the children and grand children of the monarch get the prince/princess title. The Letters Patent were varied for Prince Williams children as his children are the g/grandchildren of a living monarch.

If you are going to query Princess Annes children, despite popular opinion, titles come from the male line - Mark Philips declined a title therefore Perter and Zara do not have one. Tony Snowden did accept an earldon therefore Princess Margaret children were styled Lord and Lady.

And now you'll query Prince Edward! His children could be titled Princess and Prince, but as his highest rank is an earldom and not a Royal Dukedom, they choose the lesser Lord and Lady titles.

LadyandGent · 28/01/2019 14:33

I think I'd want to be a princess Grin

User10fuckingmillion · 28/01/2019 14:33

Kate would be Queen (traditionally). Like the Queen mother was Queen.
This doesn’t work the other way round-so Prince Phillip is not a King- because in the past people were worried about the husband taking over the throne ( King outranked Queen).

LivLemler · 28/01/2019 14:34

Edward's children are a prince and princess, just like Andrew's, however, the parents decided to use the day to day titles Viscount Severn and Lady Louise as if they were "just" the children of the Earl of Wessex rather than have the burden of using HRH Prince James and Princess Louise.

Children get their titles from their father (yes, sexist, whodathunkit) which is why Anne's children are untitled - her husband refused a title on marriage to give the children a more normal life. If Anne were male, her children would be a Prince and Princess but, again, may be known as something else.

Harry's kids will become Prince/Princess once HM dies I believe, but I suspect Harry will choose not to change what they're known as and follow Edward and Sophie's approach.

Kate and Meghan are princesses, but they're Princess William and Princess Harry, which are lesser titles than Duchess of Cambridge/Sussex.

Camilla is Princess of Wales, but chooses not to use that title for, ahem, obvious reasons.

Camilla will be Queen Camilla and Kate will be Queen Catherine when their husbands become King. Camilla may not use that title - it was announced at the time of their marriage that she would be known as Princess Consort but it is believed Charles wants her to be Queen. Presumably no reason Kate won't be known as Queen.

They will be Queen Consorts (like the Queen Mother was when her husband was King) and not Queen Regnant like the current Queen (i.e., they won't be the monarch). There is no King Consort title, hence Philip being Prince Philip and not King Philip.

I think that's all the points that usually come up on these threads...

User10fuckingmillion · 28/01/2019 14:34

Oh sorry cross post with Beth

ZogTheOrangeDragon · 28/01/2019 14:35

The children of male children of the monarch are entitled to be prince/princess. Equally, until Kate’s pregnancy with George, only the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales could be a prince. In case George was a girl, and for William and Kate’s subsequent children, the Queen issued a special letters patent to include daughters of the Prince of Wales's eldest son. However, at no time in history has the child of the second or subsequent son of a Prince of Wales had a child with a prince or princess title (unless the elder brother had already died). The child won’t be bumped up to prince or princess upon the queen’s death either.

Edward and Sophie could have given their children the title prince/princess but chose not to. Andrew and Sarah chose to do so and Anne and Mark never had the option.

LadyandGent · 28/01/2019 14:35

We never get to see pics of them recently. Last video I recall was Prince George's first day at school. He has probably graduated at this stage hah. I know they did a Christmas photo too.
You really don't get to see them much.

I'm wondering what colouring H&M's baby will have. Ginger hair and tanned skin lol? Although I think ginger is recessive, so probably brown hair.

FunkyKingston · 28/01/2019 14:52

So in short a load of antiquated sexist claptrap and petty jockeying for position by a bunch of status obsessed chinless wonders.

BalloonSlayer · 28/01/2019 14:58

So ... too lazy to Google ... who are Prince Michael of Kent and Princess Alexandra?

From memory . . . the Duke of Kent was one of the brothers of George VI. He died and his eldest son inherited the Duke of Kent title (him who goes to Wimbledon) and the younger one is Prince Michael of Kent (married to Princess Michael of the racist behaviour) Am I right? So he got the title of prince despite not being a grandson of the king when he was born, but rather a nephew?

Princess Alexandra was another cousin of the Queen? Not sure who her Dad was though.