Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not understand why Prince Harry’s child...

133 replies

WellingtonPark · 28/01/2019 14:20

...won’t be given the title of prince or princess?

Apparently PH and MM’s child will be given a lord or lady title instead.

Why is that? Beatrice and Eugenia are princesses after all.

Or will the child be bumped up to prince/princess when the queen dies?

OP posts:
FunkyKingston · 28/01/2019 17:38

The proper term is sprog. Or at a pinch, sprout

Incorrect. The preferred term is crotch dropping.

DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops · 28/01/2019 17:58

@lalalaLyra- I thought George was automatic as direct line heir but wasn't completely sure due to distance from reigning monarch. Thank you Smile

TooManyPaws · 28/01/2019 19:02

Charles and Camilla also use the titles Duke and Duchess of Rothesay when north of the Border as it is the title of the heir to the Scottish throne. Likewise, William and Kate are the Earl and Countess of Strathearn, an old royal estate usually settled on the Queens Consort to provide them with funds to pay for their household during their marriage and widowhood. I think the Rothesay title is automatic like the Cornwall title, unlike the Prince of Wales one.

BartonHollow · 28/01/2019 19:08

Just to add something that was said above apologies if I cross post but someone said Kate will be

Catherine, Princess Of Wales

She won't be

Diana was only

Diana, Princess Of Wales post divorce

Prior to her divorce she was

HRH, The Princess Of Wales

This is the title Kate will hold

She was never actually Princess Diana although that is how she was commonly referred to.

SerenDippitty · 28/01/2019 19:23

And now you'll query Prince Edward! His children could be titled Princess and Prince, but as his highest rank is an earldom and not a Royal Dukedom, they choose the lesser Lord and Lady titles.

Prince Edward will become Duke of Edinburgh when Philip dies. Does that mean his children will become prince/princess?

ZogTheOrangeDragon · 28/01/2019 20:36

And now you'll query Prince Edward! His children could be titled Princess and Prince, but as his highest rank is an earldom and not a Royal Dukedom, they choose the lesser Lord and Lady titles.

Prince Edward will become Duke of Edinburgh when Philip dies. Does that mean his children will become prince/princess?

Technically his children are allowed to use the prince and princess title and were from birth but they don’t and have said they won’t.

DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops · 28/01/2019 22:37

I believe Edward declined the Prince/Princess for his DC. I don't think they can pick it back up once he inherits DofE but happy to be corrected. I think once it's declined, that's it though, which I guess keeps it from getting ridiculous.

Whereas if you marry in, you get an elevation in rank to match your spouse if applicable. Compared to some of the succession laws back in the day, ours seem quite simple. Pauline laws, Salic law, Morganatic marriages etc. You can easily lose a few hrs looking up old heads of state and the various mechanisms and technicalities that put bums on thrones and crowns on heads!

lalalalyra · 28/01/2019 23:30

Edward's children are an anomoly. No-one quite knows the legality of their title as it's not clear if the Queen's LP's about their titles were a legal change (as she did for William's younger children in the oppositeway) removing their titles or if it's a 'known as' like with Camilla.

MummyBearBoo · 29/01/2019 17:32

I think it because they’re currently a duke and duchess

zzHummingBird · 29/01/2019 18:28

If the Queen had died and Charles were King, he'd probably give H&M's children titles so H&M's children aren't benefiting from the Q living so long. Because Prince Andrew's children got titles and they were the same, children of the younger brother of the heir to the throne.

tillytrotter1 · 29/01/2019 18:28

Kate and Meghan are princesses

Neither is a Princess, Catherine could be referred to as Princess William, like Princess Michael of Kent, but uses the Duchess of Cambridge.

The rule is that the grandchildren of the monarch through the male line are entitled to be Prince and Princess, only great-grandchildren through the Heir are so named. Once the Queen dies and Charles is King it's debateable if he can 'backdate' the titles of Harry's children or whether Harry would want that.

NoTeaForMe · 29/01/2019 18:36

I was thinking about this the other day and forgot to google it - remind me how the Queen is the Queen?! They changed the whole thing for Williams first child, so had that been a girl she would have been Queen, up until then it would only be the sons. I know we have had many queens before and I can’t remember why Elizabeth is Queen and not her brother or some other male relative? Thanks

paddlingwhenIshouldbeworking · 29/01/2019 18:46

Eh ? Elizabeth doesn't have a brother. There is no rule that the monarch must be male but within each sibling group the males previously took preference over the females - which has now changed.

Bellatrix14 · 29/01/2019 18:46

@NoTeaForMe because the Queen doesn’t have a brother?

There was a preference for male children that has now legally ended (hence Anne being after Charles, Andrew and Edward in the line of succession, but Charlotte now being before Louis) but the throne would still pass to her as the oldest of the King’s two daughters than the next closest male relative.

She was known as the ‘heir presumptive’ though, on the basis that her parents could plausibly have had a male child who would have queue jumped her Wink

manicmij · 29/01/2019 18:59

May be as Andrew is the Queen's son his children were allowed to be Princess. Princess Anne recognised she was way down the hereditary list so didn't bother with any titles for her two. Prince Harry isn't next in line ie Charles, William and William's children are all before him now so no Prince/Princess title for his kids. I think!

BartonHollow · 29/01/2019 19:03

Elizabeth is Queen because the throne passed to the second son who only had daughters

Edward had no issue

If Charles and his children did not exist, Andrew would be Prince Of Wales and Beatrice would be the equivalent of Prince William

If the rules about female succession had changed prior to her succession and Charles did not exist, Anne would be Princess Of Wales in her own right and had George been a girl this would have been the case

When Elizabeth I took the throne she succeeded her half sister Mary, their brother Edward had predeceased them both

In the case of Queen Victoria, her father was Duke Of Kent, and he was the only one of his male line (sons of George III) to have a child both legitimate and surviving, and she inherited the crown from her Uncle after he inherited the crown following the deaths of his brothers Prince Frederick and George VI.

Women could inherit the throne if there was no man ahead of them or in their direct line behind them - had HMQ's parents had a third child and that child had been a boy then we wouldn't have had Queen Elizabeth II

I realise that's all confusing, I hope it makes enough sense

BartonHollow · 29/01/2019 19:05

They should say George IV not George VI

herecomesthsun · 29/01/2019 19:08

I know the POW title is not automatic, but would think they will still follow tradition! I agree re the cost of an investiture but I think the Welsh might be a bit miffed not to have the ceremony!

The Celtic nations tend not to be royalists lol [understatement]

MsJuniper · 29/01/2019 19:20

I remember when George was born they showed his birth cert and Kate’s occupation was stated as “Princess of the Realm” - so I think she is a princess in that sense but perhaps the title works differently.

MsJuniper · 29/01/2019 19:23

Actually it was “Princess of the United Kingdom”. But still.

To not understand why Prince Harry’s child...
Inniu · 29/01/2019 19:35

@bartonhollow
The Duke of Kent was not the only son of George III to have a surviving, legitimate child. He was however the eldest to do so.

When his daughter Victoria became Queen of England she was unable to inherit the throne of Hanover as a female so it passed to her fathers younger brother and then to his son.

seenna · 29/01/2019 19:47

Sorry if it's been mentioned, but won't H and M's children eventually be grandchildren of the monarch. What happens then?

Clionba · 29/01/2019 19:50

Thank you, Ms Juniper.
Kate and Meghan are both princesses by marriage. Hence HRH.
They use the Duchess title rather than being called Princess William and Princess Harry.
Princess Michael of Kent is so called because Michael has no dukedom.
Elizabeth is HM because she was the elder child of the King, there were no male siblings.

kierenthecommunity · 29/01/2019 19:55

So as the succession rules to become monarch have changed so an eldest female child can be queen, will the same apply to PoW?

So if George’s first child is a girl she could be Princess of Wales as a title in her own right?

And if she married could her spouse be Prince of Wales or does a Prince outrank a Princess and he’d need a lesser title?

kierenthecommunity · 29/01/2019 19:57

Oh and another Q. If, say, George was gay and had a male spouse what would his title be as husband of the King?

Swipe left for the next trending thread