AIBU to be upset/angry at older man complaining about children in restaurant.

[Wakingwillow]

Just that really. This is my first post but I've been a long time fan of AIBU. We're visiting the UK for a family event.
We're a family of 6, four kids age 11, 9 and 15 mth twins. Staying in a chain family friendly hotel for the weekend. Extended family here also.
After activities today everyone was tired so we decided to have a group family meal in the hotel restaurant. Total 7 children and 8 adults. 5 of the older children (age 8 to 11) sat at a table together next to us. All were very well behaved stayed seated, coloured pages and chatted. The twins sat with adults and made usual toddler noises but nothing too disruptive imo. We had items to keep them entertained and also took them out to lobby area several times.
We arrived at 6pm but due to under staffing there was a delay taking orders and getting food to the table. Kids were served food about 7.20 pm. Adults at 8 ish. (That needs another thread 😐)
After the toddlers had eaten my husband and I took them upstairs cleaned them up, got their pj's on then went back down with them to eat our own meal.
Just as we started eating an older man came over to our table and said that we had ruined his and his wifes night with all our noise.
I really didn't know what to say. I felt an array of emotions, embarrased, upset and finally annoyed/angry. We apologised for the toddlers being disruptive, explained there had been a long delay in them getting food and said we were doing our best to keep them occupied. I also asked him what else could we do, they had to eat to which he responded they should be feed in the room.
I'm so surprised and upset by this. I've never had this happen before and I'm usually very considerate of other diners when we're out as I'm quite shy and don't like to draw attention.
This has really upset me.
I'm just wondering what others have done / would have done in this situation.

None of it is astounding, given what he said and did.

You have made some massive assumptions about the level of noise the family group made, but assumptions about a man whose behaviour left a woman 'embarrassed and upset' are unreasonable?

He was the only person in the restaurant who said anything about a meal being ruined. And he didn't speak up with admirable 'confidence' during his meal, or ask to be reseated away from the family. He decided that passive aggression was the way to go, reserving his spiteful bile until he could skedaddle, leaving the OP embarrassed and upset.

I wonder if he would have complained to a bunch of men out for an evening after work, or a bunch of women for that matter? It does seem that the kids were a factor.

I'm of that age now where I am no longer a parent to small kids but I do have sympathy for those families where everyone is out for a meal and one person, often the mum, is trying to get all the kids to behave. If the group were too loud for him, he could have asked to be moved, presumably.

"We only the OP's word for the reasonableness of the noise" We always, only, have the OP's word for things on mumsnet. But if they were really noisy then why bother coming on to here and having 10 pages of trying to make sense of it all?

mathanxiety excellent point.

"You have made some massive assumptions about the level of noise the family group made, but assumptions about a man whose behaviour left a woman 'embarrassed and upset' are unreasonable?"

But if they were really noisy then why bother coming on to here and having 10 pages of trying to make sense of it all?

Oh please. People come on here all the time trying to get validation for their outrage at being criticised for their unreasonable behaviour.

If the man was in his 70s he’s probably going deaf, my father is similar age and hasn’t realised how much his hearing has diminished. So if it’s noisy somewhere he can’t hear what I’m saying.

So the chap possibly couldn’t have a conversation with his companion due to the noise thus his agitation and complaint

Is one of those situations where you would have to be there to know who was in the right and who was in the wrong.

I don't have kids, but have noticed a vast difference when eating out as to what different families/groups of adults and children find acceptable in restaurants.

In a family restaurant, I would never object to the presence of young children and would expect a certain level of noise. You do get some groups though who seem absolutely oblivious to the noise they are creating. Not just noise but constant movement which can be annoying. In and out of the restaurant, chairs scraping, doors opening and closing. Constantly searching through bags, stuff being passed around and instructions being shouted over the top of existing noise. Its not just the noise but the frenetic disruptive energy these types of groups create. Nothing about it is relaxing.

Then you do get people massively overly sensitive to the noise others are making. I have some friends like this, who get upset about stuff I wouldn't have even noticed.

After the toddlers had eaten my husband and I took them upstairs cleaned them up, got their pj's on then went back down with them to eat our own meal.

I’d say that treating the restaurant like your own living room might have annoyed the complainant somewhat.

My own toddlers, having had their dinner, been bathed and popped into pjs, wouldn’t react well to being taken into a restaurant. They would want to either settle to sleep or go bananas. So, if your toddlers weren’t getting settled to sleep, I find it hard to imagine they were sitting nicely in their pjs waiting for the adults to finish their meals.

Children are members of the public. If you dont like being around them, stay at home
Children are member of the public and should behave as such. Public means respecting there are others around you and therefore behave in a way differently to being at home.

The self-centered attitude of some people here is really depressing and totally self centered. I bet we would have a totally different thread if OP had taken her kids to the cinema and the people next to her spent the entire time singing and laughing out loud, getting up a number of times, blocking the view, and then started kissing. I expect she would have said something and no taken too well to be told 'the cinema is a public place, if you don't like my behaviour, if you don't like it, don't come to the cinema'

There are etiquette of behaviour in various places. You are expe Ted to be relatively quiet in a cinema so you can hear the film, you are not expected to be as quiet in a restaurant but certainly more than you might be at home. It is just hood manner and what parents should teach their kids.

Someone mentioned foreigners pointing at the level of noise in British restaurants and lack of respect for fellow guests. This is very true and my local new nice Italian restaurant has now bend parties over 8 because of it. If adults can be bothered to respect others, what hope is there they will teach their kids to do so.

A group of 15 is bound to be noisy. Adults and children alike. Whilst it's fun for the family itself, it's no fun if you're a couple sitting nearby.
I would choose to go elsewhere myself if I wanted a quiet meal & saw such a big group, leave the family gathering to it.

Sorry if this has been answered but did the toddlers stay in the room when the parents came back down or did they also go back down in their PJs?? 

after 90 minutes when the poor bugger thought he was finally getting some peace - you brought them downstairs in pajamas

This. I think I'd have broken down in tears. Premier Inn is family friendly - and so is their restaurant. That doesn't mean it's solely for families - it's primarily for hotel guests, some of which are families with young children.

So the premise that he should go to a more expensive place and thus avoid children is arrogant. Why shouldn't he eat in the onsite restaurant in peace? I can't imagine getting the children ready for bed then bringing them back downstairs at 8pm. It overstimulates them at a time when they are already tired. Why not just have yours in the room?

I don't mind children in restaurants at all, providing they stay in their seat. Also, they are better placed among the adults where their behaviour can be monitored at close hand and they are not left to their own devices (and I don't mean ipads).

Putting a bunch of children on a table of their own is a really bad idea unless you're trying to piss off the entire restaurant.
'Older' people are not generally child-haters, they've just seen the gradual decline in children's behaviour since their own were small.
Good behaviour doesn't require heavy discipline, it just needs a firm and engaged parent. (SN excepted) Putting children on a table of their own is fine in your own home. Not in a restaurant which others have to share.

Ils amazing how little tolerance there is for children in the UK and yet we put up frequently with extremely poor behaviour from large groups of adults...our family is mixed French/Indian and the level of tolerance and therefore help you get from relatives and total strangers when it comes to young kids seems much higher. By the same token it seems rarer (my feeling) to have large group of working age adults (30s-40s) making a lot of noise in a restaurant for instance.

Oops sorry unfinished sentence 'seems much higher in France or India'.
Of course every place and situation is different. But that's my general feeling. We have, in the UK, extremely high expectations of children or of what sacrifices parents should make. But in other context people (adults) are allowed to 'get away with murder' in terms of disruption.

Weird double standard on this thread. It's apparently ageist to describe someone as "old" but perfectly fine for everyone to assume that the children were noisy on the basis that they are children, despite the fact that OP stated they were kept quiet.

despite the fact that OP stated they were kept quiet

She also said she took them out to the lobby a few times.
Why would she do that if they were quiet and well behaved?

Giving them a chance to run around a little to preempt any bad behaviour? I've done that before when it's clear there's going to be a wait and I don't want the kids getting restless.

My point is that no one on this thread knows how those children were behaving, and yet it's acceptable to assume that they were misbehaving just because they are kids. Surely that is the definition of ageism?

because when waiting over an hour for food after a long day most people with small children would recognise the need to be proactive about supporting them

Well that's a fair point. It didn't need the face.

Ils amazing how little tolerance there is for children in the UK and yet we put up frequently with extremely poor behaviour from large groups of adults
I don't and have complained when large groups have shown the same level of complete disrespect for other people around them. When I am struggling to have a conversation with the people around my table because of the noise other people make, then the issue is definitely with them.

Children's behave the same wherever they are, but as a whole, parents in Italy and France don't tolerate the same level of disruption in public as they do in this country. It would be very rare to see kids seating alone on a table, both because children are considered a full part of the family and therefore rightly placed with the adults but also because of the expect higher level of disruption when left on their own.

My experience is that it tends to be all or nothing. Kids either seat nicely, engaged in calm conversations with their parents or are noisy, rude and totally oblivious to other people around them. The behaviour of their parents tends to match that of theirs.

Why would you put a group of children on a table by themselves? How are the adults going to engage with the children & talk to them over a family & friends meal. I genuinely don’t understand the segregation. If there isn’t a table big enough for the entire group then you would have a need to split the group but surely you wouldn’t split on age as it’s a meal time.

I don’t have kids (yet) but if I go to a family friendly restaurant I EXPECT children to be there and that they may make noise...as they are children!

So I don’t think there’s any excuse for that guys behaviour! I personally think the fact he was trying to have a ‘nice adult evening’ in a family pub attached to a chain hotel should tell you far more about this guys life- I imagine he doesn’t have very much to be happy about! 😒😂😂

DP and I go out to ‘nice’ city centre bar/restaurants if we want a ‘nice adult evening’ but on saying that we have taken my 6yo niece to them before (7pm on a Saturday evening - nice place) and we often get ‘oh god you brought a child’ glares - but she is exceptionally well behaved (I think due to being an only child and often taken to nice places)

“It’s entirely relevant to have said he was black because schooling in Jamaica is much stricter than in the U.K. .And he would probably have been brought up as a fundamentalist Christian who believes in sparing the rod and spoiling the child”

“It would have been entirely relevant to say he was gay because gay men don’t have children so can’t possibly understand or have any tolerance”

Without hearing the gentleman's side of events, it's virtually impossible to say whether you are being unreasonable or not. It also depends on your understanding of 'family friendly'. In my opinion, 'family friendly' means that a place allows children and may make some menu adjustments to suit. However, I know many people who mis-interpret 'family friendly' as 'child centric' and believe it allow their children to forgo normal table-manners.

Why would you put a group of children on a table by themselves?
Because some parents relish the prospect of some adult conversation and dealing with their kids as little as possible. They are immune to the racket they make having learned to shut it off.

Maybe the couple wanted to have a few drinks and not have to take a taxi to somewhere hoping that somehow there wouldn't be another large family group who don't mind their kids disturbing others regardless of what restaurant it is.

The only symparhy I have for OP is the delay which clearly wouldn't have helped.ut then she should have apologise to the family for the disturbance rather than feeling hard done by by his comments.

My husband and I, (especially me though) have sensory issues and because we are both Aspies (ASD) so we cannot handle any kind of loud noise ( I sometimes jump at the knock at the door). We also have PTSD, mine of which is Complex PTSD. Sudden noises can make me jump, but we both feel noise that is continuous can sometimes be unbearable which is why we chose to live in a residential area which is about 80% senior citizens. We are very careful when going out in public and call ahead of time before going to museums to ensure that there will be no large parties of children present. We do the same for hotels and restaurants. If, for some reason, or planning fails, we often will leave altogether.
Although, it may have been rude for the gentleman to tell you that you ruined he and his wifes meal, it's very possible that the noise was just too much. Sometimes the noise, especially of children or drunk people, gets to be so bad for us, we feel like we're having a panic attack. There are times that it is just unbearable. Fortunately, friends and family are aware of this, which is why we have only spent one Christmas my MIL because of the amount of noise.

I do remember have a talk with my SIL, a few years ago and my niece and nephews were causing quite a ruckus. I was trying to have a conversation with her, but I literally could not hear myself think. DH and I had to step outside into the quiet for a break from it. It's literally like hearing nails on a chalkboard or worse. We eventually, excused ourselves and went home.

Anyhoo, I didn't mean to write a novel, but I just wanted to say, that what may not be loud to you, may be absolutely unbearable for another human being.