to ask whether 55k is doable for a family of 5?

[DoWeStayOrDoWeGoNow]

Please do not hate me for asking if your family income is considerably less than this.
It is neither a stealth boast nor is it me being goady.
It is simply not wanting to go from the frying pan into the fire without thinking things through properly, especially with Brexit coming up.
My partner has been offered a job with the above salary - after tax that would be 3326 pounds a month (although I am not sure with pension payment, car lease and the like whether that would be a final figure but it would be close).
He is in his late 40s with 25 years experience and is the sole breadwinner. There are five of us - in theory, I would be working but only if son's SEN can be accommodated in the state school system. So cannot rely on me bringing in a wage and iirc 55K is above the threshold for child allowance.
Family of 4 living in the Northwest cost of living without rent was estimated at 2185 - there are 5 of us but in theory, in a band A terraced house, we can do it. Well aware it depends on outgoings whether we are nofrills and primark we are compared with waitrose and zara we're not.

Why am I asking?
Guilt.
My partner would be taking a massive paycut to do this as well as effectively demoting himself. I would ask in the Living Overseas section but I suspect, particularly with Brexit as it stands, I will be asked what on earth I am doing.

But....there is no 'right' time to come home.
If we don't return now, then when?
I have no job here where we are, no pension rights, some friends but no real ties, my parents are not getting any younger, my son needs to come back to a school system where I can better advocate for him, my eldest is scared she won't be able to manage the A-level equivalent here, my partner and I have been unhappy here for a while now but are also aware of reverse culture shock and time is running out.

Any advice? Please be gentle with me, I am stuck between a rock and a hard place right now and trying to do the best for all my family.
I guess I am asking what you would do and whether any similar sized families can confirm that those figures are within our means (Not asking you to divulge your financials, simply whether you could live comfortably and within your means on that amount).
Thanks in advance

The remainers said there'd be an immediate Budget and tax rises if Brexit won the referendum. It didn't happen. No-one knows what will happen - there's as much chance of things being OK as there is of them not

Osborne said he would do an immediate budget and then he was fired. That’s why that didn’t happen.

Predictions were generally based on a model of actually Leaving. Which has been on hold. Now we are much closer to leaving, the predictions are all coming true. It’s all happening now not in some mystical future. Just this morning Sony announced moving its HQ to Amsterdam and P&O are registering their entire fleet under the Cypriot flag. Bentley is stockpiling parts and the biggest pet supplier is stockpiling pet food.

The bald fact is if we end up with No Deal which is where we are currently heading - price rises due to tariffs and shortage of stock, and likely further fall of the pound, will mean that many who are currently just scraping by may not manage.

No Deal may be averted, but even if it is there is a long fight ahead.

Really? Family of four (plus one who is here part time) and we are in less than £35k. We have a mortgage, three cars, and would love the money you are looking at! Totally doable

Yes, it’s doable in the north west. I’m sure you could live on £55k and be okay.

My concern is have you worked in recent years? Do you have any kind of pension provision or financial security of your own? If you are not married, which country offers a better long term future for you? Forget brexit for a moment, does Germany recognise common law wives if something happened to your DP or the relationship ended?

In the north west of England, yes that would be comfortable enough for 5 assuming you're not attempting to live somewhere really expensive. There'd be a little bit of child benefit, possibly all depending on how much your husband is paying into a pension, but either way should be well over 3k a month and that's plenty for a family of 5 to not have to worry about bills.

It sounds like you own a home already? If so, would you be selling up and moving, what sort of thing are you looking at? Depending on equity, which I assume isn't colossal on a 2 up 2 down, that type of wage would get you a nice enough 3 bed in a middling priced area of Manchester or Liverpool. 220kish type thing.

Whether this is a good idea in your specific circumstances I don't know, but the money shouldn't be an issue.

I don't know where you are but I came back and have no regrets, my lifestyle is much lower but the support my son gets at school compared to where we were is amazing!! worth every sacrifice. have you not managed to put anything aside so you don't look at those years as wasted? and you elder 2 are bilingual surely that in itself is a massive achievement. I don't think you've wasted any time away. how does your Partner feel about it?
Also my daughter was nearly at A-Level and her words were once at college in UK and I quote "Here they gave me back the desire to study, there they took it away" hope my experience gives you some confidence.

Please ignore the Brexit aspect, the German economy isn’t in great shape either so there’s no real job security any more anywhere, globally.

We moved back from abroad (non EU and not ME) 18 months ago. We went from a full on, 5 star luxury lifestyle to a modest UK one. My DH was not happy in his job and my DC was also struggling at school.

Needless to say, DH and DS are very happy. I’m struggling working full time with no domestic help (I actually enjoy cleaning and ironing so not too bad), I was also disgnosed with a chronic illness after I got back. I have private healthcare with my job but it can’t help me so I am on NHS and waiting for some treatment. I know if I was still abroad I would be getting much better care.

What I am saying is there will be pros and cons but I think the general mood of ex pats out there is that the UK is the place to be at the moment. If you leave it too long your DH will not be able to access the UK job market due to age and that won’t work if you aren’t entitled to pensions in DL. I say go for it. It will take time to get back into UK frame of mind and don’t expect good healthcare or cheap utilities. Good luck OP

Come home ☕️💐

You and DH aren’t happy there.
Your eldest wants to come here.
Your youngest has SEN and is refusing to learn the language.
The middle one - not sure, but as you haven’t said much I’m assuming will be ok either way.

You have our own home to come back to, that’s affordable. Littlest & middle can share for a long time yet. Eldest in the box room. Not ideal for you and DH, but do able. Get settled then invest in the most comfortable and easiest bed option.

SEN provision here is variable, but at least he will be in an English speaking system and you will be able to advocate for him in your native language.

The plan was always to come home. Look FORWARD. Whether you have achieved what you set out to do or not, what’s done is done. Don’t fallen into the sunken cost way of thinking. If nothing else, your eldest two speak German fluently and have had the experience of living in another country, another culture.

You’re coming home, to a place you know...it’s not like gong somewhere new again.

DH can apply for other jobs and hopefully you can get DS settled into school and you can work part time, or maybe weekends if really necessary/desired. But DH’s money will support you here. People are managing on half that with 3 kids.

I can’t see any advantages to staying in Germany.

Come home.

I think you should go with your heart. If you are homesick and need to be here then I'm sure you will make it work.
I think I would get a move on though with regard to sixth form applications! Could you send one off anyway rather than leaving it any longer? Can always cancel later if you stay put.
You dont say where in the NW your home is but Winstanley college near Wigan and Sir John Deanes near Northwich are always amongst the highest placed state sixth forms and are competitive to get in. If she wants to start in Sept I'm not even sure if they are still accepting applications?

I just need a push because it will mean the last decade was for nothing (DH will be back where he was and we might as well never have left in the first place) but that's negative thinking, right?

That's not negative thinking. It's not sensible to undo all the work that your DH has done and all the upheaval you've gone through.

But also, it sounds like your husband is in banking? I'd be avoiding the UK for at least two years. The industry is a mess until we've sorted out all the changes from Brexit. Opportunities are tightly guarded right now because nobody knows what will happen and the big banks are locked in a battle of "You move first."

Of course it’s doable. The average salary in the U.K. is half that and most people have children and families. Asking on MN about this isn’t the best where most people seem to earn hundreds of thousands. Why you’d take a pay cut if you don’t have to is what’s less clear.

Tough one. Are your kids at a local school or international? Is moving to a different country an option? The salary doesn't sound terrible but I've been out of the UK for years and find it eyewateringly expensive whenever I'm back. Sounds as though you have a place to live - is that with a mortgage?

I don’t know anything about Brexit and how that should or shouldn’t influence your decision making. Seems to me if everyone holds off financial decisions until after Brexit then a financial crisis will become a self fulfilling prophecy anyway. Someone will bite my head off for that 😁
We are a family of 4 and expecting DC3 in the summer. We are both 27 and own a small house, we have one wage coming in of less than 40k. We’re in Glasgow.
We don’t holiday abroad (or even in the UK unless staying with relatives) and our children are preschool. We made the choices we have (where we live, schooling, one parent at home etc) based on what we thought was best for our children so even if we’re wrong, we’ll never regret our priorities.
I think only you know your limits financially. If you think it’s affordable, and you think your children are better provided for here.. for me that would be my decider. I have and would again take a career hit for the kids and what I think is best for them. Similarly my husband has turned down work that means more money but less time at home.

55K is a very decent salary for the Northwest, but if your household only has one earner, then becomes much more of a moderate figure for combined earnings.

When you also have three children, it's really not all that much. Don't get me wrong, it's as much as many families earn, but it's not a lot.

The North West is like many places - it has areas of high wealth and deprivation, but overall, it's a less expensive place to live than the South, which means your 55K will go further.

You absolutely can live on it, remain warm and fed, and live a modest lifestyle with that (modest home, car etc)
You won't be able to be particularly extravagant or fund expensive tastes with that.

As an aside I would find it very hard to go back at this stage. Financially, emotionally and otherwise.

Please ignore the Brexit aspect, the German economy isn’t in great shape either so there’s no real job security any more anywhere, globally.

Really, really stupid advice. Go onto the Brexit forum for a more informed assessment of the political and economic situation here.

What a dilemma OP. You mentioned elderly parents? Would they be able to help financially in any way if things got tough? And if you're moving closer to them, never underestimate the benefits of having family close by, let alone the challenges of trying to support them if they fall ill and you're living abroad.
And yes to the posters who have advised avoiding the 'sunken costs fallacy'. Your German experience will have added to all your lives. You gave some very powerful reasons for returning and countless posters confirm that financially, it's doable.

Make a list of pros and cons (and do one with your DH and then one with the children) . Good luck

I think it's a sensible approach to assume that after Brexit, interest rates may rise, and the cost of living will increase.
If that doesn't happen, great, but you'd be a fool to assume it won't. Prepare for it to happen, then you won't be shocked if it does.

If you think you're going to be 'at your limits' financially, then I absolutely would not be committing to any serious financial commitment right now. Sadly, we don't know how long the effects of Brexit will take to reveal themselves, but I'd say the next couple of years will be unpredictable (as a minimum). The future is always uncertain, but with Brexit, we absolutely know there is potential for turbulence on the horizon.

That's not saying 'don't commit' it's saying 'if you are at your financial limit, then be VERY wary'

I was working up to a year ago but as a mini job (450 euros a month tax free) - I had to quit (broke my heart as it was a decent job fitting around school) to look after my son. I have no pension here but am married. I have a tiny pension in the UK and a tiny frozen pension in the UK.
Were I to return to teaching or cover supervision, I could pay back into one of these or similar. I am the beneficiary on DH's pension if he dies but it is not that high. No life insurance here.
DH is also ready to go back to the UK as is eldest child but they have no idea what they want to do either study or career-wise. They will be applying to sixth form college from September taking a punt on 3-4 subjects if doable.
The are fluent in German but will always have a deficit due to the fact that it is not my or DH's mother tongue - the German Abi is scary because you only have some choice of what you study.
So they will do written tests at the end of two years in maths, German and art history with vivas (oral/presentation) in social history and English. Along with continuous assessment in biology, geography, Spanish, ethics and economics.
It is far more complex than the English system hence the cold feet.
My own German is okay but not good enough to navigate the special needs system. Alternatives at the moment would be montessori or jenaplan if they would take him.
We currently rent out our end terrace but would need to live in it for two years to avoid CGT (although there won't be many gains) it is not big enough for all of us but DH would be on the road most of the week (another stressor, I won't lie) so we'd manage short term. It could be extended potentially. I have no idea as to whether banks give out new mortgages to people as old as us but we would have about 50K to put down on a bigger property if we sold up. We currently rent (dead money but it is the norm in Germany).
We were never intending to stay here this long - thought it would just be for a few years. It feels like when Withnail says he has gone on holiday by mistake.
Thank you to all of you for talking me through things.
It's been useful.

Come home.

You all want to. Come home sooner rather than later to find a 6th form place and talk through subject options.

The money reallky isnt bad and can take you through the period of change.You can do this
The hard bit will be squishing into the house.

Im not a financial advisor but mortgages common in 40s as you can take a 20 year mortgage before retirement age. Youd easily get 165 (3 x income) and added to your 50k equity would be 215. Depends where you are in nw whether thats doable. You could look on rightmove.

Although you wont all be squished for long as your eldest is getting older. It makes sensse to come back asap if theres a job and thats the plan. Especially bearing in mi nd educational stages of the eldest and youngest.

The grass is rarely greener.

One sixth form college deadline has passed but will take late applications, just cannot guarantee subjects. The other's latest deadline is next month.
The next question then would be: what does one do with Art, German and History A-Level? She would also need to take a gap year or would have to pay overseas student rates as you have to be resident in the UK for 3 years.

But rent on your salary would be fine too.

here's as much chance of things being OK as there is of them not

There really isn't an equal chance.

Brexit MAY, in the long term, work out well for the UK - that remains to be seen, but there will be instability for a period of time. It's a huge divorce, and the separation will impact both sides negatively in the short term...

After that - we'll see.

So both you, DH and DD all want to come home.
I'd say that's a no brainer OP.
There is a shortage of teachers, I'm sure you would find hours somewhere if need be. Also DD could get a job to fund her own clothing/hobbies etc. Our DS's are both at sixth form and earn between £200 and £300 a month from their PT jobs in McDonalds.