to ask whether 55k is doable for a family of 5?

[DoWeStayOrDoWeGoNow]

Please do not hate me for asking if your family income is considerably less than this.
It is neither a stealth boast nor is it me being goady.
It is simply not wanting to go from the frying pan into the fire without thinking things through properly, especially with Brexit coming up.
My partner has been offered a job with the above salary - after tax that would be 3326 pounds a month (although I am not sure with pension payment, car lease and the like whether that would be a final figure but it would be close).
He is in his late 40s with 25 years experience and is the sole breadwinner. There are five of us - in theory, I would be working but only if son's SEN can be accommodated in the state school system. So cannot rely on me bringing in a wage and iirc 55K is above the threshold for child allowance.
Family of 4 living in the Northwest cost of living without rent was estimated at 2185 - there are 5 of us but in theory, in a band A terraced house, we can do it. Well aware it depends on outgoings whether we are nofrills and primark we are compared with waitrose and zara we're not.

Why am I asking?
Guilt.
My partner would be taking a massive paycut to do this as well as effectively demoting himself. I would ask in the Living Overseas section but I suspect, particularly with Brexit as it stands, I will be asked what on earth I am doing.

But....there is no 'right' time to come home.
If we don't return now, then when?
I have no job here where we are, no pension rights, some friends but no real ties, my parents are not getting any younger, my son needs to come back to a school system where I can better advocate for him, my eldest is scared she won't be able to manage the A-level equivalent here, my partner and I have been unhappy here for a while now but are also aware of reverse culture shock and time is running out.

Any advice? Please be gentle with me, I am stuck between a rock and a hard place right now and trying to do the best for all my family.
I guess I am asking what you would do and whether any similar sized families can confirm that those figures are within our means (Not asking you to divulge your financials, simply whether you could live comfortably and within your means on that amount).
Thanks in advance

I'm with Fatasfook. I'd stay put till after Brexit. I really hope you're married, too, as you don't have any pension rights here, either, not being married. And I'm sorry but if I were the sole earner in the family I would not want to take a huge pay cut and demote myself and move to a country that's got political instability in my mid 40s and move my kids away from their schools and friends because my partner's no longer fancying it.

Also, don't try to wait for the perfect moment to move. There is no perfect moment. If you want to move, and it sounds to me like you do, the sooner you do it the better.

Where in Germany are you? There are provisions for SN but you need to be able to understand the bureaucracy. Do you speak German yourself?

I would stay where you are. It seems a shame to uproot the whole family because of Brexit fears and your younger child's SENS needs. See how the school can support him first and persevere. Can he get a home tutor to teach him the language?

Between us we earn around 50k and there are 5 of us and another at University who we are helping out financially by paying his rent. We manage fine but then we don't have a mortgage ! Our kids are all teenagers and do cost a lot, bus passes, gym membership , phones etc. DS( 17 years) at college has a part time job so pays for quite a bit himself.

We're a family of 6, in the south east and are on less income than that. It's definitely doable.

You sound overwhelmed at the moment, and I can see why. Lots of decisions to be made and you feel the time pressure. But there is still some time.
Would you be able to move in with family for a short time? Or perhaps your eldest could as she settles into college/sixth form? Maybe that's one way to ease the pressure?

The advantage you have is that you have a property already. Although it does appear that it is too small for the longer term.
From what you've said about your circumstances it sounds like moving back is a good idea and you need to start planning.
I presume you already rent out your current property? Could you continue to do so and rent a larger place? (Whilst looking at selling and buying a larger house?)

It's certainly a good idea to take some time as a couple and seriously look at what your options are in the UK. Do you have any friends in the area you want to go to who could give local advice about school, costings etc? You should be able to make a list and perhaps seeing it clearly on paper would help.

Germany has free uni education. Starting adult life without major student debt over your head is a massive plus.

I would set aside some of your DP’s higher salary where you are, to commit to visiting your parents in the U.K. more and paying into pension scheme for both of you.

It really doesn’t make sense for your DP to take major paycut and demotion to come back to a country in economic and political turmoil.

If you’re not married, you need to get married or you have really fucked yourself financially.

Of course you can do it. Plenty of families manage on less. But....you will all need a positive mindset. I would suggest similar to another poster.... firstly if your 2 bed is rented out then leave as is. Your priority is to find a school which a) has space for your son and b) will help him to get his ehcp. (Do check with the council if they will recognise anything from Germany as if they do and it's equivalent you can get into most schools). Then find a house to rent in that area. Bear in mind university fees here are now outrageous (9k a year plus living costs for some courses....if your elder kids can do that for free where you live maybe factor that in.) Your time abroad has not been wasted. Who's to say if you'd stayed here your husband may have been made redundant....life happens. Good luck.

Could you and the children come back, your husband work in Germany (compressed hours maybe?) and return to the U.K. at the weekend.
My husband works with a lot of people that do this.
Just an idea!
I live in the SE and we could live off of that but it wouldn't give much wiggle room. It's all about work life balance so everyone being happy is your answer

Purely in terms of salary/location/family size it is definitely doable - we are a family of 5 in the Midlands (DC 12, 10, 8) and have a (very) comfortable life on that. Our mortgage is about £900/mth, food approx £400, bills (CT, water, electricity and gas) approx £400. DH is main breadwinner, I work PT around school hours. We have plenty spare for music lessons, Scout camps etc for the DC and meals out. Holidays are modest and are UK or France, but that suits us.

We are in Germany

Why is your daughter worried about the German equivalent of A levels? Is she not fully fluent in the language? Building language skills can be transformative to making a success of living abroad and if there is something you can do to ease the short term (extra language coaching etc)

I would honestly avoid moving back just now due to the uncertainty. In 6 months the situation may not be better but should be clearer.

Why has DH taken a pay cut to return to the UK? Can you indicate his general skills area? The suggestion to move into consulting with his skills may work but depends on the skills and typically if you move into consulting from single organisation work you take a pay cut for the first couple of years (effectively you move a rung or two down the ladder).

Don't let the scaremongers dictate a massive life decision.

Take heed of this. The remainers said there'd be an immediate Budget and tax rises if Brexit won the referendum. It didn't happen. No-one knows what will happen - there's as much chance of things being OK as there is of them not. It's all guess-work. If we're not careful, some kind of financial catastrophe will become a self fulfilling prophecy - i.e. the doom-mongers will cause the collapse themselves simply by doom-monging! It's not a time to make life changing decisions. It's a time for stability, just sit it out and wait to see what happens.

I'm a little bit confused by all this, tbh. We have a much lower income than that and live very comfortably as a family of 4, although I admit that the third child would push housing costs up considerably.

How long has your partner been looking for jobs in the UK?

• If he started this month and has already been offered a £55k job, I might suggest he keeps looking.
• But if it's been 6 months, 7 interviews, and his first offer, I might suggest he takes it (if you're sure you want to move).

And I agree with a PP about asking his current company for any opportunities to relocate.

That really isn’t doable

In the land of MN where everyone goes on at least 5 luxury holidays a year it isn't, but for everyone else it is, especially in the North West and the OP already seems to own a property.

I completely understand your quandry regarding your son who has SEN, I would have thought that provision in Germany was good though?

You haven’t messed up OP . You have ,and are having to , adapt to circumstances . Most life plans don’t necessarily go to plan.

Your husbands improved experience isn’t being wiped off his CV , it will still be there to aid a job search once your back and settled.

I can’t add much on the finance side of things , but others have given you good advice.

Good Luck

We are doing well on an income at least 10K less than that.

However- no idea how Brexit is going to affect that - seen possible food prices increase projections of 10% to 33% from reputable sources.

SEN budgets are being cut - and it can be a huge fight to get the support needed in UK.

Mid 40 I'd be worry about lack of pension rights for you.

So perhaps do the old pros and cons list - and lots of research.

Is there anything you can do to mitigate your DD cocncerns about A-levels - have you spoken to potential 6th forms - looked at Syllabuses.

Have you looked at University costs - they are high in England.

Have you exhausted all SEN help in Germany - there must be other's who have had to look at alternative provisions.

It is quite doable in the NW. Depending on where you'll be, a three bed is possible. It depends on your priorities - I go without holidays, Sky and streaming TV because I think quality food, decent tea and nice loo roll all year round are worth it. A long weekend away does for me - could you live like that for a couple of years and then pick up some part time work?

Would NI contributions be lower than your health insuance in Germany?

Now is probably the right time for each of the children. At least here there is some understanding of SEN and Home Ed is a viable option with good networks in many areas.

Your daughter can do A levels at college - she could start in September.

The first couple of years may be tight and the country will have ups and downs, but that's the same anywhere in Europe. Greece is still knackered, Italy and Spain are unstable, Hungary is, er, interesting and Germany has its own problems bubbling under the surface - none of which are because of Brexit.

You could also look at a couple of online supermarkets like Morrison's, Sainsburys etc and do a dummy shop to get an idea of household costs.

None of us know what the future holds, we can only do the best we can with what we have.

Of course it's doable - and you haven't messed up. You've given yourself and your children wonderful experiences that you wouldn't otherwise have had. It's not 'back at the beginning' either unless you want to look at it that way. It really is a matter of perspective.

Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans. :-)

Do your research and make a decision as a couple and a family. Make decisions that take note of your children's wishes but don't be governed by them. Even 17-year- olds should not hold a family to ransom and don't necessarily know what's best for them (and the family). Other's manage on much less. It can be made to work, but you need to do the research to decide if you want to do that. There has been lots of good advice here that I won't replicate.

I know families that would be thrilled to have that amount to live on but others that would struggle. Find your pickeaxe and get rid of that rock so you can make an informed decision, but know that you can't predict the future or guarantee anything.

Good luck! :-)

I think it's do able, we have 3 kids in the West of Scotland on 48k and were fine.

But be aware due to Brexit there is NO job security. Dh was offered a 52k job with hefty bonuses, and has been sacked after 2 weeks because they have 'changed their mind' over Christmas. They are very apologetic but that won't feed our kids. This is totally legal and we are now up shit creek. This is the second time this has happened to our family since Brexit, so if you can keep continuity of employment and find a decent unemployment insurance policy, do it!
You sound ready to come home tbh.

Jingling hells bell would love to know where you food shop it that a week for us there’s only two of us.

We are a family of 5 (2 late teens and a 7 year old). Our HH costs excluding mortgage are round about £2k a month. So your over £3k should be fine. We are not in the NW but DH's best mate and would say comparable to us.

When we came back to the UK we had no home and no job between us. It worked out fine and no regrets. There may be less job security than in times gone by but unemployment is low and there are skills shortages. The fact the employer is looking to recruit your DH back to the UK suggests he is in demand. If you want to come home then get on with it while you have the opportunity rather than spending the next decade in regretful limbo would be my advice.

best mate is*

I'm not best placed to comment on whether it's doable (although it sounds OK to me) but down south it would be a very tight squeeze to get 5 in a Band A terraced house, even if you are fairly minimalist.

sound very easily doable. If you are a Sahm, you won't have child care costs either. And I guess your child with Sen gets DLA so you would qualify for CA too.