To think the only people who want 'Nn Deal' have no idea what this means?

[KennDodd]

And don't believe you if you tell them. Facts and laws just seem to be wafted away as irrelevant.

Because what you are asking is for impossible, you cannot say in detail how it will play out

When I ask for details I am not asking for an exact crystal ball forecast of international monetary and goods export markets across the globe, allowing for relative currency values of the US, Cuba, or Argentina at any given time.

Just a list of countries that we could trade with, that we don't currently trade with, will do and an idea of trade goods potentially involved: what we could produce to exchange for what. That might enable the clever people to start a very rough check on how the value compares to what we're likely to lose.

@Moussemoose

Just curious Mousse! - if I were to say I think many of the problems we face as a society now are bigger than Brexit, but as a result of the death of Christianity in this country, exacerbated by two world wars, and the decline of the nuclear family - what do you think?

Someone who does know what he’s talking about - video of a speech given this evening by Sir Ivan Rogers who was the UK’s Permanent Representative to the EU entitled Where did Brexit come from and where is it going to take the UK?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=-PxpHNXIKnY&feature=youtu.be

but in the long run it will be worth it. I think it’s a case of short-term pain for long-term gain

Do you have a crystal bowl that we don't?

No-one even knows what tomorrow will bring, never mind in the long term....

The reality is that we live in a globalised world now.

Brexiters seem to live in a bubble of last century. --when Britain "ruled" the world.

Anyway, nice to know you wish pain on anyone. Not.

MrsAriadne
Prepare to get flamed!

Beyond the economics, Dyson quitting UK irony of ironies

Yeah to be fair it is, he is wanting to get into china etc and wanting the eu trade agreement via singapore.

However:

food and medicine shortages

I bet you read beyond headlines and every rebuttal is just being fed by muh evil right wing media

,increased level of security threats

Succumbing to security threats? I will bet my house on you taking a different stance if the security threats where from brexiteers, it's a massive dirty slippery slope argument to get into this, it's obvious that because its on your terms it's deemed acceptable but then I'm not such a bigot to wave over such a thing.

I'd think you were thinking very widely about issues that impact on society. That's probably a good thing.

Tim Martin says we should just drinking french and German wine.
There are pages and pages of no deal propaganda.
its horrible.

Reminds me of a certain country in the 30s.

Why hasnt Nicholas offered any sort of detail? You have an economics degree. Who would you like to trade with who you cant currently and what would you like to trade? You dont need a crystal ball to come up with a brief list on that do you? Or any other brexiteer on this thread. Very basic question.

Op, I agree with you, I work for what would be classed as a critical company, and I can honestly say when politicians say it will be catastrophic they are not exaggerating, but some people not just refuse to accept it, they do so coming from a position of knowing very little and just reading media reports.

They seem to think it will all be ok, and as much as much is unknown it's not its will it be ok or will it be catastrophic, it's just how catastophic will it be.

As a sky commentator said, it's very unclear if those shouting for no deal will in reality be willing to live with the very real consequences of it.

@Nicholas22 i HAVE a degree in Economics, the trade deal benefits the EU not UK

You also seem to have a crystal ball. The UK and EU have not even started to discuss the post-Brexit trade deal - they are prevented from doing so as long as the UK is a member of the EU. All that has been proposed at the moment is the Withdrawal Agreement - the stuff about citizens' rights, the border on the island of Ireland and the payment of £39bn for commitments already made. The UK government and parliament have yet to agree these issues, never mind the details of the future relationship.

On 30th March the discussions can start, at which point the UK will discover that:

• they do not need us more than we need them;
• the EU is not going to give a non-EU member better terms than an EU member enjoys;
• the UK ceases to be a partner of the EU and becomes a competitor, so the EU will not agree to anything that gives the UK a competitive advantage with regard to UK-EU trade, and at the WTO the EU will likewise not agree to anything that gives the UK an advantage over the EU in international trade.

Last week Fox complained that although the UK was ready to agree trade deals with many countries, they were not yet prepared to sign up. This rather confirms the view that Fox is clueless - no country is going to sign a deal with the UK until it sees how desperate the UK is to trade. Despite Fox and others insisting that the world and their wife would be queuing up to do business with the UK, he has not been able to point to a single country that he is currently having serious discussions with.

"Just curious Mousse! - if I were to say I think many of the problems we face as a society now are bigger than Brexit, but as a result of the death of Christianity in this country, exacerbated by two world wars, and the decline of the nuclear family - what do you think?"
Nice and goady.

I think it’s utterly shit that we’re pushing our closest neighbours away and wanting to do deals with the likes of USA and China which I feel are very immoral in their business structures. china- child labour, skinning animals for fur alive etc. USA- not looking after their employees or even just low paid, unskilled workers and the disabled. Looking around the UK recently we’re already heading towards a USA structure. It’s all very I’m all right jack so stuff the rest of you.

Parker i really dont think many of these MPs or leavers give 2 damns about the GFA. Its they did this would be sorted out by now. Meanwhile we have a car bomb in derry, a couple of controlled explosions there and in Belfast and 3 or 4 hijackings. Hardly a sniff of it on BBC news main page.

I don't have an economics degree and wouldn't understand half of it, but that question seems a reasonable place to start. People interested in it might like to ask who we trade with currently. One place to get a start on that seems to be the ONS: there's a lot of info gathered at www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21

Countries outside the EU which we currently trade with include the 3 mentioned and others as diverse as Georgia, Nepal, Qatar and The Seychelles, to name a handful.

Nicholas22 is an excellent example as to why we should not think of Brexiters as thick and old- some are thick and young.
Unfortunately you can't use reason to argue someone out of a position that they did not use reason to get into.

Bluntness

I also work for a critical company

All of us haven't got a scooby doo what is going to happen. My present forecasting model is close my eyes and throw a dart out of the window and see where it lands.

Unfortunately I am not joking

Also no brexiteer on this thread has answered the OP. They have said they kmew what they were voting for, but have failed to explain what that is exactly. Or even vaguely.

If you know what no deal means, please, tell us.

Don’t understand your post there. ‘Security threats where from Brexiteers etc’ sorry no idea. Are you suggesting I think Brexiteers are the main security threat to uk in event of no deal? Wow! No idea what slippery slope you are talking about. Or who or what you are calling a bigot?

Increased security threat in event of no deal has been forewarned by Chief of Met police and minister for security.

As per, no reference to the hard border on island of Ireland...

Why hasnt Nicholas offered any sort of detail? You have an economics degree. Who would you like to trade with who you cant currently and what would you like to trade? You don't need a crystal ball to come up with a brief list on that do you? Or any other Brexiter on this thread. Very basic question.

It is the same with Brexiters saying they don't like obeying laws made in Brussels. Ask them which laws in particular they object to obeying, and they can't answer.

@PinkGin24 - I voted to leave, and when I voted to leave I was happy for that to be on the basis of no deal.

So that means you were happy to leave in a way that means the UK breaks the GFA, a legally binding, international agreement?

When I ask for details I am not asking for an exact crystal ball forecast of international monetary and goods export markets across the globe, allowing for relative currency values of the US, Cuba, or Argentina at any given time.

But you are, if you are so aware of relative currency values and include Cuba etc means you are trying to trip someone up whilst ignoring globalisation and neoliberal agenda whilst pretending you're a champion of the working class.

Just a list of countries that we could trade with, that we don't currently trade with, will do and an idea of trade goods potentially involved: what we could produce to exchange for what. That might enable the clever people to start a very rough check on how the value compares to what we're likely to lose.

Im going to ignore the obvious flaws in this, but being contrarian, how does this help the disenfranchised when you are essentially
advocating the neoliberal ideals

The issue with disenfranchisement is to do with internal U.K. politics.

FPTP has a lot to answer for.

Not the fault of the EU though.

No, JustAnotherLurker, I'm asking for what we should have been given in those appalling propaganda theatric pieces that pass for information nowadays: the beginnings of an economic cost-benefit analysis in simple terms that I can understand.

In terms of security I already have that, and it's all costs and no benefits.

Globalism has gone too far, but I'd like to see your solutions for dismantling it.