To think the only people who want 'Nn Deal' have no idea what this means?

[KennDodd]

And don't believe you if you tell them. Facts and laws just seem to be wafted away as irrelevant.

Thats ok birdsandroses

Brexit has shown huge hypocrisy in many of the left leaning remainers in that they're now arguing in favour of the ugliest aspects of neoliberal capitalism, it's far from Brexiteers who are illinformed and have been taken in by propoganda.

It's the same big businesses/banks we should listen to now and ignore when its the threat of Corbyn, from bringing in the minimum wage or get them to pay more taxes, or we could listen to nobel prize winning economists saying we would face a serious recession if we didn't adopt the euro, and the mere leave vote winning would send us into into recession ignoring the fact that germany is teetering on it.

And you assume the government will replace the money that has been invested by the EU in the north west, Wales, Cornwall and other deprived areas.

That's part of the issue though isn't it, they have been fucked over by every stripe of government, the wanting to whitwash the past as not true labour or that Brexit is illinformed right wing rhetoric whilst a life long bennite is elected leader.

If we are to be reducationist, then it's easier for Cornwall etc to lobby London for more handouts than it is the EU, there does need to be more investment across the UK, but you have people complaining about upgrades that are future proofing such as HS2.

Pretending that the EU is protective whilst big business spend billions on lobbyists putting in more red tape to prevent competition or start ups that would help these areas is the shades of grey that get dismissed.

BBC news online:
Sony will move its European headquarters from the UK to the Netherlands to avoid disruptions caused by Brexit.
The company said the move would help it avoid customs issues tied to Britain's exit from the EU.
Despite the move, Sony won't shift personnel and operations from the existing UK operations.
It is the latest Japanese company to flag a move to the continent in response to Brexit.
And on Tuesday appliance maker Dyson announced it was moving its headquarters to Singapore, from Malmesbury in Wiltshire, although it said it had nothing to do with Brexit.
The UK is on course to leave the European Union in March, but there is uncertainty over the process following the vote in the UK parliament to reject a deal agreed by the British prime minister with the EU.

What is your expert evidence that suggests “short term pain”

There is no evidence that pain will be short term. The economy will be permanently smaller for the foreseeable future (which is why Rees Mogg and others talk about benefits only being felt in 50 years: no one can prove them wrong).

Ok, I'll bite
The gulf now between the have's and have not's in this country is sickening to see.
I'm extraordinarily lucky, in that I have a home that belongs to me now and not the bank, I have zero debt now too. A lot of this was luck, being born at a time when I could benefit from cheaper housing, free education. Yet the people I work with, mostly in the 20's have nothing! They work simply to line others pockets and what is worse they are expected to carry on doing so uncomplaining They are expected to live in abject poverty whilst those older soak it up.

I really do hope that Brexit completely flattens this country, that unemployment goes through the roof, that interest rates go sky high, that greedy landlords are left with massive debts and empty houses, that businesses that have thrived on cheap labour suddenly discover the cheap labour tap was turned off and that employees are expected to be treated better.
The UK will never change unless change is forced upon it, and that is exactly why you lost the referendum.

Capitalism by its nature breeds inequality. Inequality existed before and during EU membership. It will get worse post Brexit. People have continually voted for parties supporting the status quo including austerity. It’s the inability to distinguish between problems caused domestically and EU membership (not perfect but I’d prefer not to live in a economic waste land) that is the key issue.

Just another lurker, good point about listening to experts on brexit but not on corbyn. I know people who fear a corbyn, mcdonell government far more than brexit.

Also very good point about lobbyist. This is something that's been a revelation to me. The eu has been pumping out propaganda for years.

It's so far removed from our everyday lives, the scandals, the dodgy people, the lobbyists etc.. We are not in touch with it like we are with our own direct government.

We also heard during the campaign that many people who lived in areas with eu money said in some areas the type of investment wasn't of interest to them eg new theatre.

Capitalism breeds inequality?

human nature by its very nature breeds inequality.

We have seen socialist, communist, this ist that ist type governments... In the past and we know humans don't want to be given jobs and same houses and same wages... Someone always wants more.

It does not work.

See Eastern Europe... Case example.

I am old enough to remember 'The world will grind to a halt - everything will crash and people will DIE' in 1999 because of the millennium bug. It never happened. The simple fact is that no one knows what will happen when/if we leave, it is scaremongering. I'm not saying it won't go t*ts up but people are talking about it as if it is a certainty. Bored rigid of the whole debacle....

Yes Krystal, that's because we prepared adequately to prevent mishaps. That's not really the case here is it? Sorry you're bored, that should be solved in April when you'll have more to occupy your thoughts.

Hooray, millennium bug post - I call Bingo!

y2k bug - people had YEARS to deal with it.
and they did deal with it. IT men and women worked a lot for years to prevent major issues.
IT guys are generally doers and not politicians trying to talk problems away.

Being a rule taker from the US isn't going to enable a corbynist revolution....

Sigh.

Jeez Krystal that's because millions were spent and years were taken to make sure planes didn't fall out of the sky, I should know, my DH was involved. You don't have to be exactly 'old' to remember it either

From conversations I've had, the people who want no deal have a vastly over inflated idea of how big / important the UK is compared to the EU. They don't realise things like loss of passporting rights could lead to a vast vast reduction in tax income from London that is going to be difficult to get back any other way. They think the rest of the world is desperate to trade with us. No they're not they'd rather trade with the EU as it's the biggest trading block in the world. We are trying to leave the biggest marketplace in the world which was right on our doorstep and instead sell things to people who can make them cheaper themselves or buy them from somewhere closer. The US has a protectionist policy and we rejected their last trade deal as it was so onerous and they had much lower standards for things like chemicals and meat so we're not going to find loads of help there.

Take food for example. We get most of our food from the EU. Apparently this will force us to become more self sufficient when we leave. Growing more in the UK is all fine if you want to eat local and seasonal - and in the UK that means cabbages and turnips for tea all through the winter. We can't just magically change the climate to grow things like oranges we now buy in from Spain. We can buy from further away but it's going to be poorer quality and higher cost. If we go no deal it's going to drastically change how we eat and how much we pay for it at least and that will disproportionately affect the poor. The only way we can make more food in the UK is pay farmers enough to live on and that means higher tax and subsidies or paying a much higher price for bread and milk etc

Dyson, having been instrumental in Brexit, is moving company to Singapore which recently has signed up to a trade deal with EU. Thus he has access to an enormous market he's encouraged UK to dispose of. Yay Leave! Bye jobs

Well if you don’t want to challenge the economic system that breeds the problems that leavers complain about either inside or outside the EU it’s all abit pointless isn’t it?

Watching the news yesterday it became very clear that no deal is no longer a bargaining chip with the eu, the chief negotiator commented how our parliament didn't want it and was and will move to prevent it. They watch the news like us.

So they need to take it off the table, it's silly now. What did concern me though was parliament is looking to delay it by nine months, when the eu is saying it's highly unlikely they will permit this. So effectively forcing us into permanently revoking it. It really is a case of her deal or no brexit right now.

The only good point about Brexit is that the economic axe will fall most heavily on those areas that so vociferously supported it, i.e. the South West, North, and Wales.
Good luck to those areas when they ask our government to replace the EU subsidies they used to have.

I have no time for them because they had no time for the rest of us when they voted us down the river.

I don’t see that as a good thing at all. The public have been duped. They’ve been sold a solution that doesn’t exist. And among those areas that voted leave will be people who voted to remain or who couldn’t vote at all but will still be facing the consequences.

@mobyduck , I live ina leave area in The North.
While a part of me hopes they all fucking starve, tbe realistic part of me has to live here and send my dd to school amongst kids whose parents voted Leave. I tell her not to discuss it.

Well if you don’t want to challenge the economic system that breeds the problems that leavers complain about either inside or outside the EU it’s all abit pointless isn’t it

No, my issue is that Brexit is being lead by individuals who favour an even more neo-liberal system like America. And we are more likely to get a far right backlash, than one which challenges the economic system. I think there will be more, not less, economic slavery outside the EU.

RTB, I agree my point is to posters who can’t comprehend those who support the EU warts n all and oppose Brexit largely because leaving means more inequality and more economic disparity not less.

Airbus to move:
“If there is a no-deal Brexit, we at Airbus will have to make potentially very harmful decisions for the U.K.,” said Chief Executive Officer Tom Enders, who has been one of the most outspoken business leaders on the topic. “Please don’t listen to the Brexiteers’ madness which asserts that, because we have huge plants here, we will not move and we will always be here. They are wrong."

Well, who needs jobs anyway. We can daydream about our Empire.

I'm a staunch remainer and utterly depressed and obsessed by Brexit - can I just ask a question though? Great post from Meringue but why won't we be able to still buy our oranges from Spain albeit presumably having to pay more for them?

One thing that really gets me that hardly anyone ever mentions is the dreadful environmental effects of importing produce and goods from much further away. I think the whole concept of us producing our own food is hilarious, we've not done that for the last 400-500 years or so! Turnips for 8 months anyone??