To think the only people who want 'Nn Deal' have no idea what this means?

[KennDodd]

And don't believe you if you tell them. Facts and laws just seem to be wafted away as irrelevant.

My assumption was that people who voted leave did want no deal. In terms in not wanting to be tied to the customs union etc. I have to admit, that despite doing a fair bit of reading I'm finding it all a bit confusing .
Or was it that they wanted to have some or all.of the benefits plus no deal?

Mobyduck, the government can't even get it together to arrange one half of that equation, as well as making the arrangements to rejoin!

Also, can you imagine if the news got out that even if it were possible, the government were negotiating both to leave and rejoin at the same time?

I thought 'no deal" was a hard brexit?

Deadsouls

The option of all of the benefits with none of the responsibilities was what was really sold to the electorate, there was no talk of no deal and shortages or of things being difficult and hard for a time before the vote.

I don't think voters who voted to leave voted largely for no-deal. I think a lot, probably the majority, were voting for some combination of leaving the single market and customs union, stopping freedom of movement, while having tariff free access to the single union, and no contributions to the EU. All this would be so easy as the EU would be desperate to sign a trade deal with us they would agree to anything.

boris

Oh I see. So the belief was there would be a deal, all of the benefits and none of the costs. But what about all those leavers who are like 'no deal, no problem'

"So the belief was there would be a deal, all of the benefits and none of the costs. "

Yup right down to David Davis and his first meetings at the Dexu where the polciy was stated to be "Cake and Eat it".

"But what about all those leavers who are like 'no deal, no problem'"

They are duplicitous, or they still believe the EU will come running with a cake and eat it deal if only we were strong enough to leave. The latter are naive, the first are guilty of moral hazard.

A friend of mine is still staunch Leave. His arguments: more money for the NHS and Social Health, no East Europeans driving down wages and sending child benefit back to Europe, and no more illegal immigrants crossing the Channel.
He is impatient with the government trying to do a deal, to him it is a no brainer- just leave!

@mobyduck your friend is a naive fool.

@mobyduck your friend is a naive fool

There are millions like him- have a look at the comments in the Daily Mail.

And that makes it better because.....?

And that makes it better because.....?
The UK may become more isolated, but if we have an higher standard of living and a better NHS and Social Care system it is a price worth paying.

"but if we have an higher standard of living and a better NHS and Social Care system it is a price worth paying."

Not. Going. To. Happen.

A no deal results in the ERG wet dream of a low tax, low regulation economy. The economic shock will be used to force it through.

Again, an example of a leave vote for being for the personal objectives of the voter, not what was on the ballot.

The UK may become more isolated, but if we have an higher standard of living and a better NHS and Social Care system it is a price worth paying.

How will we achieve this?!

no more illegal immigrants crossing the Channel

How is Brexit supposed to stop that according to your friend?

*The UK may become more isolated, but if we have an higher standard of living and a better NHS and Social Care system it is a price worth paying.

How will we achieve this?!*

By ceasing to give money to the EU.

From The Daily Mash:

PLANS for leaving the EU without a trade deal seem to involve living in a 14th century agrarian society, experts have noted.
Concerns have been raised over initiatives such as working 16 hours a day in the fields to grow enough food and using prayer to cure illnesses after the NHS has collapsed.
Economist Donna Sheridan said: “Total economic meltdown followed by living in filthy hovels with your pigs was probably not what most people voted for in the referendum.
“I’m particularly concerned about replacing high-tech manufacturing and financial services with growing cabbages. I also believe there is no significant overseas market for ‘swords and big catapults’.”
A government spokesman said: “People were warned the economy would take a hit after Brexit. It’s too late now to complain about doing your own dentistry with pliers.
“Imported food will be a thing of the past but everyone likes watery cabbage soup, and in a couple of generations people will have forgotten courgettes and oranges ever existed.
“There’ll be no TV or internet but our new network of medieval priests will ensure everyone gets an exciting story about going to Hell every Sunday.”

And tanking the economy in the process? How long will it take to get to this economic nirvana and how many people are going to suffer as we do?

"By ceasing to give money to the EU."

Ah, platitudes with no explanation.

Unicorn wranglers are out in force today.

The UK may become more isolated, but if we have an higher standard of living and a better NHS and Social Care system it is a price worth paying.

How will we achieve this?! By ceasing to give money to the EU.

The UK benefits about 8-fold from the money paid to the EU, in the form of access to the world's largest and wealthiest market, the savings gained from sharing the cost of organisations such as the Medicines Agency and through operating in a community with common regulations.

The thousands who have already lost their jobs because of Brexit are not experiencing a higher standard of living. The millions of people in the UK whose jobs are entirely dependent on the UK's membership of the EU are not looking forward to a higher standard of living - they are worried that they won't have a job by next Christmas.

Assuming that the UK thought it could get away with not paying the £39bn for existing commitments, this money has already been spent - £20bn on new customs facilities, £billions on Brexit planning, £billions on recreating and duplicating all of the Agencies that were previously shared with the EU, £billions on Galileo, £millions on ferries, both real and imaginary and so on. Plus the future cost of unemployment benefits to the million car and manufacturing workers who will lose their jobs, and the cost of similar benefit payments to those whose jobs are dependent on the spending power of those workers. Add in the loss of tax revenues - from the loss of income tax to the loss of corporation tax payments as Easyjet, Sony, P&O, Dyson and so on and the balance sheet looks very bad.

Rather than benefitting by £350m a week, Brexit is already costing the UK £500m a week before the country even leaves. Once the pound plummets and the cost of basics increases, very few will have a higher standard of living and there will be no money in the tax kitty for a better NHS or Social Care system (both areas which are about to face a staffing crisis as the EU employees accept the UK's invitation to bugger off back to where they came from).

From the Daily Mash you had me there for a minute - well done.

Havana that's just so depressing isn't it..

Thanks @justanotherlurker for your helpful reply. You make some good points, especially about economics not being an exact science. I know it’s more the risk of no deal tanking the economy is high rather than it definitely will. I am sorry I can’t write more at the moment but wanted to thank you for responding.

What is your expert evidence that suggests “short term pain”

And you assume the government will replace the money that has been invested by the EU in the north west, Wales, Cornwall and other deprived areas.