To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

OP no one works 24/7 no one. This is a difficult situation that needs both parent involvement.

Kids can be very intelligent when it comes to showing their good side to certain people. I would film the behaviours so you can show the GP/family who don't believe you. It sounds like jealousy, when he is bad he gets your attention so he repeats the behaviour.

You have probably tried this but when he is showing the behaviours pick up the other children and leave the room. Have a phrase like, we are going to leave you here until you stop and walk away, when he comes to you say are you ready to say sorry, if he says no continue not engaging with him. Also don't give in because then he will know you will eventually give in and he will get away with the behaviours. That's how we deal with challenging behaviours at work. I work with people with autism.

You are doing your best, I was the jealous sibling as a kid, I once tried to coax my sister out of a window and also created a flood in the house.

It does sound like classic attention seeking.
He gets attention from you and his sister. Having a baby that reacts is like having a giant squeaky toy.
I'll post more after the school run.

I'm not going to tell my dd to sit at the table or no food, She won't understand that. She likes to roam about and should be free to do so.
My dp works 5am until 6, usually has Sunday off and every second Tuesday. And he wasn't working when this behaviour kicked off so I think it's unfair to shift the blame

that sounds hard. until you see the Dr (which I think is the right thing to do), can I suggest a couple of things?

1. get some time alone with him. talk - listen - to him. nice, calm open questions. 'you seem really angry with DS, tell me about that' , 'i really liked the lovely new car you were given, why do you think grandad chose to give it to you? see if he tells you anything useful. he may have low self esteem and think he's 'bad' or not deserving of good things /nice toys and that's why you have 'replaced' him with other children. that's quite easy to fix (but heartbreaking to hear) by some simple things.
2. sit on the floor to play with him, when dd comes along, include her too and explain the 'good behaviour' you are doing 'we are sharing the toys' 'we are being kind' , give him positive feedback for every tiny good thing 'that was lovely sharing, I'm so proud of you' , you were so kind to me/dd, what a lovely boy you are' . Ignore the bad behaviour unless violence which needs naughty step. btw for naughty step try to find a new place where he is more enclosed and bored if you can, explain why he is being put there 'you are on the naughty step because you did x and that is not acceptable' - say nothing else at all. ignore him totally and do not engage whilst he is in there. very hard, but effective. do not talk about .the punished incident again once he is out. invite him back to play 'we are playing cars, would you like the blue car or the lorry?'
3. I had a hell of a time with my DD so sympathise. the best piece of advice I ever had (from a child psychologist) was 'always offer them a route out of the bad behaviour' , meaning that kids often keep on doing the bad thing , we threaten sanctions, they don't want to 'lose' or lose face so they square up to the conflict and it escalates. So give an alternative route to that: 'well you can carry on shouting/being mean/etc but DD and I are doing painting. I'll leave a brush here for you as we'd love to do painting with you - you're a really talented artist.. perhaps we can put your art work on the fridge afterwards and then have a biscuit. that sounds nice. shall we do that then? I can't wait to see what you've painted!'. honestly this worked miracles for us.

hope this helps

don't beat yourself up too much. it sounds like you're trying really hard. get to the GP, focus (consistently) on the good stuff and see how it goes.

I really feel for you, OP. Having three children so close together is absolutely exhausting. You’re probably doing nothing ‘wrong’ at all - it’s just really hard for one person to give attention to all three children. And of course your DP can’t help out more if he’s at work all day.
I don’t think the GP is the answer - you need some day to day help around the home. I’m surprised hardly anyone on here has asked about grandparents. Do either your or DPs parents live near by? Do they or can they give you any help? If not, can you afford to hire a mothers help a few hours a week to take your younger two while you spend some time with your DS? Even if money is tight, there must be someone who can help you - a friend?

I have a sen child and I learned a lot about preventing problem behaviour very fast!

Firstly, is there anyone who can help you to separate out the kids a bit for the next few weeks? Sounds like you are all on top of each other. An hours babysitting etc here or there? Any activities you can sign up your oldest for? Swimming? Dance? Sports? Art? After school or weekends.

Have you considered sectioning off parts of the room with stair gates or play pens, e.g. his bedroom with a stair gate or stair gate on a room downstairs? Just to physically separate the kids a bit. I know this is a juggle as you physically have to keep an eye on them. But even if used for half an hour say putting oldest to bed earlier, with a toy he hasn’t played with yet

Consider an iPad for oldest. I know he’s young, however he is craving attention and stimulation. He is probably bored too. If you cannot be giving him a lot of attention then short periods with an iPad can help and make him feel he’s getting something they don’t. It can also be a very useful reward for good behaviour.

Separate the day into chunks of activity. Not loads of time in the house or loads of time having to do shopping either. Make it focused on what the kids need. Get home deliveries. Don’t do housework or minimal. Minimal dinners. You just haven’t the time or energy realistically.

Make sure at least part of the day is outside. Walks to a shop for a small treat. Walk to play park. Walk to soft play. Or if it’s too mad walking with all of them, drive to soft play or something active for that boy. He needs physical activity.

Divide up the day in the house. Music on dancing for half hour. Books out half hour. Big toys out for an hour. Dress up hour! Like schools and nurseries do, they do it as it keeps a lot of kids stimulated and not all on top of each other.

Then give that boy praise every single time he does good. Be specific. You were very kind to your sister, when you shared that toy, well done.

Escalating negatives for bad behaviour, a stern NO for not sharing etc, an immediate consequence for any aggression.

However the best way is to set it up so that this does not happen!

DD was 2 when DS came home, he had been in Neonatal for 4 months and required a lot of care to begin with at home so she was not a happy bunny.
I was like you OP, at the end of my tether with it as she would be really rotten to him, she put a kids mini trampoline on the back of his bouncy chair and was about to jump on it when I caught her. She would nick his dummy and then shout at him for crying.
My midwife told me she was showing signs of jealousy, it's basically the case that they get used to being number 1, and then suddenly another child is brought into the home and they have to share the attention. Some will be fine, others will not and show out in varying degrees.
What worked for us, and you could try, is making his involvement with the baby a positive one. He may be missing attention so include him in things like with changing the baby, he can collect the nappies and bits to help you. If she's crying encourage him to be kind and sing her a song or show her a toy. And when he does these nice things, reinforce that this is a positive interaction by praising him and having a cuddle. Try and take some time with just the two of you. However, when he is being off with her, again you need to reinforce this is not right by making him go to his room or removing a favourite toy.
He wants attention and at that age, any attention is good attention so he's acting out to get a reaction from you.

I'm not going to tell my dd to sit at the table or no food, She won't understand that. She likes to roam about and should be free to do so.
Ok it's clear things are so tough with your ds and as the senco above said you need an early help referral. Pretty sure the hv can so this.
But you also need to lose this attitude. You are the mum and you need to establish rules and patterns with your little ones. It is safer and less hassle for your ad to sit at the table to eat. She doesn't get to picl what she wants all the time. Step in now, tell her we sit at the table to eat and sit with her to eat while she does, even if you just have an apple. If you carry on with this kind of attitude, Matt I g them down freely just because they lime it all the time, you will end up with a home full of children who don't do appropriate things safely. The EH referral will look at your whole family and will be able to help with this.

Can your mum and mil help at all, even if it's just to spend the day with you and the children. It would take some of the pressure off, having three under 5s is hard work.

I think it's because I don't sit at the table so she does start off there but eventually gets up, my ds wouldn't have sat at a table at 2 years old no I'm not gonna enforce that. However wrong I may be.
No grandparents are involved, I tried to get his grandad to take him out and he did, took him for some new clothes but ds kept shouting help me help me help help. And kept throwing himself onto the floor, so grandad just got the bus back home and isn't brave enough to try again
I did get sure start involved but they pretty much said he was too much hard work

You sound like you’re at the end of your thether and understandably. Unfortunately you are the adult and your son is a 4 year old child. He cannot manage his own emotions or solve his own problems. That’s where you come in, like it or not, sorry.

I would also recommend the book listen so your kids talk and talk so they listen. You say you don’t think it will help. It certainly won’t if you don’t read it.

You need to be in charge. As exhausting as that is. Try not to shout. It rarely works and usually children just zone out. Speak to your son in a clear, firm and authoritative tone when you expect something of him or you’re telling him off. Don’t go on and on. He doesn’t need a long explanation. If he hits his sister with a toy you can say, you don’t hit your sister, it hurts. Then give him his consequence. Carry it out. Don’t make it long winded, I don’t really like the naughty step. Maybe just take the toy he threw away for however long you feel appropriate. You could also give him ways to direct his anger. ‘If you’re feeling angry and want to hit you can hit this pillow or draw me an angry picture to explain how you’re feeling etc’

If he misbehaves on the way somewhere, take him home. If he wants something and you say no stick to it. Let him sit on the floor and scream. Stay with him. Quietly. Offer him cuddles every 5 minutes. He won’t want them at first. He can’t control his emotions he needs to know you’ll be there whatever he’s feeling. The first few tantrums will be unbelievable. Once he realises what you say goes they won’t be. It may take a while but it will be worth it.

And keep him away from your dd’s unsupervised. He sounds like he has few boundaries and could really hurt them.

I feel sorry for you but you need to help your son. In a few years it will be a lot harder.

I'm not going to tell my dd to sit at the table or no food, She won't understand that. She likes to roam about and should be free to do so.

However, while she is roaming about, she is getting hurt. All sitting at the table, you can supervise.

my ds wouldn't have sat at a table at 2 years old no I'm not gonna enforce that.

Right. How many other things did he just get to do his own way with no boundaries and how did that work out?

Hi OP, I really feel for you. Your exhaustion is coming across with every reply you write. I would like to suggest Homestart, you can self refer. You need some help and support and they can provide that, often whilst waiting for GP referrals etc. They will do whatever you need from them eg play with your little boy to give you a break or (probably what I would do) take the girls for an hour or two so that you can have time with him. Here's the link so you can find out if they're in your area
www.home-start.org.uk/

OP it's not about shifting the blame onto your husband, it's about getting him to help you. Does he do bath and bedtime with DS when he gets home? Because if he doesn't then I think that might be a good place to start.

I’d second this advice too. It’s really hard, I’ve often thought ‘why do I have to put so much more into parenting than other people’?! My children have sen and extremely challenging behaviour. However it’s just our lot, we are in this position.

Honestly honestly you CAN turn this round. Get help but ultimately it’s the consistent, day to day actions of us, that make the most difference. My son is still challenging but because I work bloody hard every day to stay one step ahead, I get the reward of a much more joyous and fun relationship. You can too OP. Please believe me.

Secondly, I know you think you’ve tried everything but it seems like you’re not being systematic enough. You have naughty step, confiscating toys, just telling him off for really quite serious things (wrecking the carpet).... he doesn’t know what will happen, and that element of unpredictability means he will keep pushing boundaries as he doesn’t know where the boundaries are. You have to have simple, immediate consequences that he knows about and that you follow through with, every single time. It’s boring and tiring but it’s the only way. I second the recommendation to watch Supernanny, and look at how consistent she is. That’s the key.

Homestart! Yeah that was it, they said he was too much work pretty much, they tried 3 times but couldn't get him to settle down.
Well whatever you clearly think my parenting is wrong so 🤷‍♀️

Of course she likes to roam about, she’s a toddler. But roaming about at mealtimes is potentially dangerous (choking risk) and also doesn’t show children that there is a routine in place, which they like. If your ds behaves at nursery - which you say he does - that suggests he likes knowing what to expect and being in a routine, because nurseries are very efficient in that regard. Two year olds at nursery sit down together when they eat, and your dd should be doing that too. You don’t have to be draconian about it. Your script goes something like “Breakfast time! When we’re all at the table, Mummy will let you choose which cereal you like. Dd, come and sit down and choose your bowl...when I can see you sitting down, I will know you’re ready to eat....” etc etc. The “when...then” line is effective as it teaches consequences and I use it a lot at work. Eg:
“When you have got your coat on, then we can go out.”
“when you have stopped shouting, then Mummy will listen to what you want to say.” And so on.

No boundaries or routines and the sleeping arrangements sound unbearable

Ask for help asap

'I'm not going to tell my dd to sit at the table or no food, She won't understand that. She likes to roam about and should be free to do so.'

Children want and need boundaries.

U poor thing no wonder ur knackered! I don't think his behaviour sounds normal at all. What was he like before his sisters came along?

P.s. I personally wouldn’t be too hung up on sitting at the table. Not yet. Maybe once things are better.

I’d focus on an active balanced day with plenty to do. Outside activities e.g. soft play and classes for oldest.

I’d focus on getting any aggression to zero.

Of course ut it exhausting to look after 3 children under 4 or 5. But you don't tell us who else is around you to help you and has regular contact with yoir kids.

You say you have mortgage to pay and bills. That is fine but you've never mentioned how much time your DP spends with the children. Surely he doesn't work 7 days a week. How many hours has he got with each of his kids ever day?

You said you go to classes with your son. Who looks after your 2 younger children with you? Do you go alone to them with your son every day including weekend?

In my oppinion your son knows he will get your attention when he is doing all those things. That is why you have to learn to praise him doing positive things and not to show him attention when he is naughty. As many above said you so is left alone with his frustration. He probably isn't able to express his emotions. How is his speech development?

Don't have any words of wisdom OP apart from it sounds like your doing a great job being their mum!

It sounds pretty horrendous & I completely agree with PP that you need to get to the GP. It shouldn't be dependent on his behaviour at nursery that decides whether & how he is referred. Like a PP said so many children can mask or hold on to that behaviour until they get home however that will eventually stop & school will see it at some point. I'm a teacher who had a parent for years telling us how bad her DS's behaviour was at home. We believed her but never saw anything like it at school & then it just all changed & everything Mum had been saying for years started happening in school & in a way I think she felt vindicated but it shouldn't need to get that bad!

The risk taking behaviour & lack of sleep are big red flags for me & health professionals need to listen. I think you need to talk them in terms of you being at "crisis" point even if your not so to get things moving. It's not fair on you or your family!

Sending gentle hugs & thinking of you x