To ask dh to show me evidence he’s not lying

[breadhead]

It’s only a petty thing, but Dh has lied about lots of petty things in the past and I’m putting my foot down now after too much upset.

He is currently saying he’s not sure whether he should show me the evidence or that I should just trust him. I clearly don’t trust him, and need to see proof to help me regain my trust.

Am I being unreasonable??

I had an ex that did this - lied about every inconsequential thing. I’m not horrible, and wouldn’t have kicked off about things (apart from once in a while when it was bigger stuff!) but he just could not tell the truth! Stuff like saying he’d got stuck in traffic on the way home, then turning up reeking of the pub (and one of his mates tagging him there on Facebook)...I didn’t care at all if he wanted to go for a drink after work, he would have been told “great, see you later” if he’d been honest, but he lied anyway. Shops being ‘out of stock’ of an item he was going to pick up (when I’d called and made sure they had plenty), because he’d actually just forgotten. Little things, but it was like water torture - they eventually added up and eroded my trust. He did pull some bigger ones than this; no cheating as such, but enough dishonesty around communication with women (added to all the tiny lies) that it just killed the relationship.

I understand where you’re coming from OP. Little pointless lies are infuriating, and they do damage your trust.

Do you think you can trust this man? If he’s acknowledged that this is a problem but doesn’t seem to be doing anything to change his behaviour, what sort of future do you see? You could work together on this, so that he doesn’t lie and you don’t need proof that he’s telling the truth, but that would take commitment from both of you.

For what it's worth, you don't sound controlling or abusive too me.

You just want him to tell he truth and stop weaseling his way out and lying instead of saying what he really thinks.
It can be exhausting living with someone lie that.

Yeah, if they lie about the small stuff, then they’re happy to lie about the big stuff.

And what is gaslighting if not lying about the small stuff.

And just cos it’s small stuff, doesn’t mean they are ‘white lies’.

It’s frustrating, nonsensical and affects your mental health.

Ultimately you can’t and don’t trust him, clearly with good reason.

And without trust in a relationship, what is there?

There's people coming at this from different angles, but coming to the same conclusion, the relationship needs to end.

Or he needs to stop lying about petty shit.

I think you are totally within your rights to refuse to accept lies, little or small. And you are within your rights to make a stance about it.

What you can’t d imo is tomtey and force him to stop lying. Either he does or he doesn’t. But you are not going to make him change if he doesn’t want to. Or, as some posters mention, you’ll end up being controlling.

I think that unfortunately, you need a frank discussion and to make it clear that either he stops lying, all lies incl very small ones. Or you will separate because he has gone over your boundaries so much it’s not acceptable for you anymore. Because this would mean you can’t trust him and a relationship wo trust isn’t worth having.

I find it interesting he isn’t rebelling about you being controlling but about the facts you should just trust him.
Maybe there is a need to chat about how, when trust has been chattered, the person who broke that trust need to make a lot of efforts to rebuild that trust. And that being fully open is the only way to do that (like it is when someone is cheating too).
Again this is something he needs to wantnto do rathervthan something you can impose on him though. If he doesn’t, he is also signing away his relationship with you.

You don´t sound abusive at all to me. If anything, you sound ground down by this. Are you sure you want to continue this relationship? Where there is no trust, there really isn't much to go on.

And what is gaslighting if not lying about the small stuff.

Interesting point right here actually.
I wonder what lies this 'man' has told and how many have been designed simply to confuse and undermine OPs memories of certain events etc etc.

Classic gaslighting tatics.

I'm tending to see DH's side of this too.

Why does he lie - is it for an easier life? Is it to avoid an uncomfortable conversation? Is it to avoid being 'told off'? Or is it just because he's always done it to avoid owning up to mistakes?
Your reaction to his lies seems to be contributing to the difficulties in your relationship. I understand your frustration, but you certainly come across to me As controlling, belittling and mistrusting (understandably). That must be hard for him to live with too.

Why does he lie - is it for an easier life? Is it to avoid an uncomfortable conversation? Is it to avoid being 'told off'? Or is it just because he's always done it to avoid owning up to mistakes?

How is it EVER a reason good enough for someone to be lying?.
Let’s be honest if my 9yo or my 16yo was doing that for the reasons you mention, they would still get a bollocking for lying. And they wouod also be told that if they are destroying trust then x and y can’t happen anymore.

We are talking about a grown man here. These are not reasons that wouod ever make lying acceptable. And certainly not reasons why the OP shouod just accept them.

The OP reactions are part of the issue yes. Because basically she has accepted them for so long that they are now part of the ‘normal’ way of doing things. She clearly needs to stand up to them more than she does!

He sounds exhausting

Your reaction to his lies seems to be contributing to the difficulties in your relationship. I understand your frustration, but you certainly come across to me As controlling, belittling and mistrusting (understandably). That must be hard for him to live with too.

It's not hard for him to live with, he just needs to stop lying over petty things. If he can't, then he's got a bigger problem.

Imagine lies are actually squeezing the knee cap to make someone flinch. First it's fine, maybe funny and you can brush it off. Then it's annoying and you'd rather thy didnt. Then it's fucking annoying and you ask him to stop it. then you demand they pack the fuck in before you lose your shit. But he doesn't stop, everyday, without fail, squeezing they knee cap to make you flinch whilst he laughs.

How long before you're sick of it and want to bash his head in with a ring binder?

Constant small lies are just like that..
Enough to make you flinch, but repeatedly flinching breeds annoyance, anger, frustration and finally attacks with ring binders.

And yes that is the best analogy I could think of this morning..

When I first read the title, I assumed this was over an affair, or huge debt, or at the least compulsive, pointless lies that closed in on pathological territory. All situations when, yes, proof would be wholly reasonable. Yet you say he lies about small stuff just because he lacks assertiveness?

Do you mean he lies to you because he finds that easier than confrontation?

That's not a flaw necessarily. It depends on what the confrontations are about. People advise others to tell white lies to get intrusive people to respect their boundaries better on MN all the time. I'm not saying you're always intrusive, but demanding your partner orders a book on how to stand up to you and then policing whether he has in fact bought it certainly sounds that way to me, tbh.

You wanted him to buy a book. He said he did to get you off his back. He's a grown man: you should not have been on his back to begin with, and he shouldn't need strategies to manage you.

I'm afraid I think you should be looking for self-help books for yourself, and leave him to organise his own. I'd start with co-dependence and also look at what drives your need to control. I'm not saying that to be unkind; I have the same tendencies. But I rein them in. I don't make them the other person's problem: it is my problem.

In fairness, I could be wholly wrong, and it could be as KlutzyDraconequus describes. Maybe you've been seeking an excuse for his behaviour and came up with lacking assertiveness, and that's why the book meant so much (as opposed to his doing what you wanted meaning so much). Maybe you feel his lies make him childish. Dunno.

I do know that this all sounds incredibly exhausting and I can't see the pattern you're in as sustainable. And I'm genuinely sorry, because it must be draining and depressing.

Surely if your relationship has got to this level, it's a more harmful relationship than it is beneficial?

It's impossible for anyone here to definitively say from your posts alone whether you're controlling or he is a habitual liar for no reason, but I tend to think whoever is "right" this relationship is broken beyond repair anyway?

I know I couldn't live like this, in either of your shoes.

Jeez, some of you!!

The OP is not controlling, abusive or anything like that - she's just sick to death of her husband lying over petty shit when there's no need to!

I went out with someone like that for 6 months and it had me all on end trying to work out what was real and what wasn't - he would lie rather than tell the truth at every available opportunity, over the stupidest things.
I was with him while he was on the phone to someone about picking up an item he wanted to buy - I could hear the conversation on both sides, so I knew full well that the seller had said "I'll be here til 2 this afternoon". Said boyfriend wasn't deaf but he told me, straight after the call, that we had to leave immediately as the seller was only going to be at home til 12. He was adamant, despite me telling him I had heard the seller say 2 - no, he was right and I wasn't. HE was an abusive gaslighter, it turned out. Luckily he left me for someone else, but it took another few months for that to come out without him lying about that too!

Living with a liar is dreadful and unless you've tried it, don't blame the OP for being sick of it.

It sounds like the relationship is fundamentally broken.

For someone to lie compulsively, when they don’t actually need to, there needs to be a reason. Either it’s a self-esteem issue or it’s a self-preservation habit they have developed from past or current situations, or they could be a sociopath. I would hazard a guess that for the OP’s partner it’s a self-esteem or self-preservation issue. In my opinion there is nothing that could solve these issues other than therapy, a self-help book isn’t going to help.

You don’t have to answer OP but what is it that is keeping you both together? If a psychic was to tell you that this issue will never be solved and your husband will be lying about stupid stuff for the rest of his life what would you do? What decisions would you make regarding your relationship?

My soon-to-be-ex used to lie all the time - and then blame me when caught out. He wont change. Maybe time to rethink the relationship

Small lies seem to me to be a perfectly reasonable and healthy response to controlling behaviour. Anyway, this relationship definitely sounds like someone needs to call "time" on it.

The OP is not controlling, abusive or anything like that - she's just sick to death of her husband lying over petty shit when there's no need to!

Maybe he is sick to death if her telling him what he should or shouldn't read or order.

My God, the hard of thinking are out on force on this thread.
The Op isn't controlling, just fed up to the back teeth of not being respected enough to be told the truth.
The book isn't the issue, although I can see why he might benefit from improved communication skills.
To be repeatedly lied to erodes trust and respect. I can see exactly where you're coming from Op and in your shoes I would be evaluating this relationship very carefully.

Sally Maybe he is sick to death if her telling him what he should or shouldn't read or order

Come on now, you just made that bit up. They had a discussion about something. I can imagine the Op night have led it as she us the one that wants to see some changes. He appears to be terminally unreliable and I'd bet my Tim Roth Photo Collection on Op's H being a bit useless at more than just being honest.
And anyway, how hard is it really? To tell the truth? It's a damn sight easier than fabricating shit time after time.

Come on now, you just made that bit up. They had a discussion about something.

No. It is an opinion. Just like yours where you have assumed something.

My God, the hard of thinking are out on force on this thread.

You mean people don't agree with you.

‘If you are constantly telling someone what to do and micromanaging them it serves you right if that person lies to you. You sound controlling to the point of abusive.”

Eh?? I am flabbergasted by the assumptions many people have made. I never ‘demand’ or ‘instruct’ anything from my dh. Who ever said I did?? I am a more assertive character than him yes, but that’s also compared to his passivity. And I’m also very kind, patient and understanding. Hence me trying to talk to him and understand why he feels the need to lie. I am sympathetic!!

With regards to ‘instructing’ him to buy this book, this was following a big heart to heart. He said he’d buy this book I’d said I thought might be beneficial for him. He agreed. Is that abusive??

Was the book called why men lie?

Perhaps this was a step too far....

Joking apart Op you have my sympathy, it's bringing back memories of my time with liar. At times I actually thought I was losing the plot.