My sisters about to transition

[Moominfan]

I'm absolutely devastated. It's such a long term decision. They're only 18 and still figuring themselves out. Originally went to gp who forgot to do referral so it bought us some more time. She's now going down the private route and has an appointment Monday. I've really tried to keep my opinions to myself as didn't want them to feel they had to rebel against the rest of us. Was hoping life would distract them, driving lessons, travel, uni ect but their adamant they want to go through with it.

Honestly I do think 18 is too young. My DD never expressed any feelings about being in the wrong body until she hit 17. Then she decided to live as a male. She got her passport changed to male, changed her name, cut all her hair off. I went to all the support groups with her etc. This lasted for two years. Then, as quickly as it had begun, it stopped. She changed her name back, swapped back her passport and has lived as a female ever since. She's planning on having children soon. If she'd gone through treatment she would have lost that option. And yes to those mentioning it, my DD is on the spectrum. OP I understand your concerns and no I don't think you should pretend to be ok with it if you're not.

Just people saying that it isn't OP's decision to make, it isn't about her.

Actually, it is about her when she is being forced to collude in a lie, and go along with something that everyone knows is not actually true, in order not to lose her her relationship with her sibling.

I can't think of any other situation where people are forced to lie about something that is glaringly obviously not true in the interests of 'being kind'. Humans can't change sex. Females cannot become males.

The closest I can get to with this stuff is being forced to go along with a certain religion in order to keep a relationship going, and I think that most people would agree that that would be wrong.

And this is soooooooo not like accepting that a member of your family is gay.

I think I love you beer
I get too annoyed to write something as coherent.
All these people saying the op would just be accepting have no idea what it’s like to deal with this in real life.

And yet your argument beerflavourednipples is exactly like the argument people used to make about gay relatives. No one can love someone of the same sex, it’s a mental illness, an abomination, a family embarrassment, and you shouldn’t expect your family to support you by accepting something that isn’t true.

When you find yourself copying the arguments of bigots, you should pause and rethink.

Being gay doesn't involve a medicalised pathway that will lead to infertility....

And yet your argument beerflavourednipples is exactly like the argument people used to make about gay relatives

Not by the examples youve given at any rate

And yet your argument beerflavourednipples is exactly like the argument people used to make about gay relatives. No one can love someone of the same sex, it’s a mental illness, an abomination, a family embarrassment, and you shouldn’t expect your family to support you by accepting something that isn’t true.

And yet.... I haven't said any of those things.

Do you believe that humans can change sex then?

Being gay is about what you like, that's it. It does not involve 'correcting' something that is 'wrong'. It does not involve taking all sorts of crazy ass drugs that we don't even know the long term effects of, making yourself irreversibly infertile, cutting off perfectly healthy body parts. It certainly doesn't involve doing any of this to kids. It does not involve telling kids that if what they like doesn't conform to what is normally associated with their sex, then they need 'correcting'. It doesn't involve infringing on the rights of another group.

Absolutely sick of the way that this has been tacked onto the end of LGB and is being used as a way of silencing anyone who questions. I guess time will tell who is on the 'wrong side of history'. I imagine when loads of people have realised that they will never have normal sexual function, will never have children, may suffer from chronic pain or be suffering other side effects from long term drug use, they will know the answer to that.

I’m confused why the OP would need therapy because her sister wants to be a man ?

Why is it a lie ?
My best friend is a transgender - female to male. She is now 27 and very happy living as a man.
I don’t believe in the whole we are all gender neutral etc but I do believe there is people like my best friend who genuinely see them self as the wrong gender.
I never saw her happier than when she finally made the change.

Lonely, it’s not rocket science. People get therapy to help them talk through and cope with many life situations. Though this wouldn’t cause a situation for me, it clearly does the OP so having some way to offload and come to terms with her siblings decision is not the stupidest idea ever.

They are very very similar arguments that we’re used against gay people, but if you want the exact same arguments look at the arguments in bioethics regarding forced sex assignment at birth for intersex people: there is no such thing as intersex, it is a delusion, people are either female or male, they cannot biologically be both, intersex people have to be assigned a sex to save them from themselves and it is the role of medics and family to save them.

Refusing to see that you have the same arguments as bigots is, ironically, part of being a bigot.

She is now 27 and very happy living as a man.
I don’t believe in the whole we are all gender neutral etc but I do believe there is people like my best friend who genuinely see them self as the wrong gender.

What do you mean 'living as a man'? What does that actually mean, without resorting to stereotypes about men and women? It seems to me that much of the trans agenda is steeped in regressive gender stereotyping.

I do believe that a very small number of people suffer from the mental illness 'gender dysphoria' and this may or may not be alleviated by certain medical used steps. That is not what we are seeing now, in fact there is a huge push to de-medicalise the whole thing.

They are very very similar arguments that we’re used against gay people, but if you want the exact same arguments look at the arguments in bioethics regarding forced sex assignment at birth for intersex people: there is no such thing as intersex, it is a delusion, people are either female or male, they cannot biologically be both, intersex people have to be assigned a sex to save them from themselves and it is the role of medics and family to save them.

What the Jeff has intersex got to do with any of this? Talk about a deflection!

The questions that people are raising around transgenderism, particularly with regards to the transing of children, and the way that women's rights may be under threat, are absolutely nothing like the arguments about why being gay is 'wrong'.

I love these people who say ‘excuse me, not trying to be rude. I just want to understand. But what do you MEAN living like a man/woman / feeling like a man/woman’

Lol every time. Same people care deeply about protecting what it is to be a man/woman. What is that exactly? The irony!

Your argument is flawed lonely is gender is a social construct and varies around the world/through time.
Sex cannot be changed.

I love these people who say ‘excuse me, not trying to be rude. I just want to understand. But what do you MEAN living like a man/woman / feeling like a man/woman’

Assuming that's directed at me, I don't follow? What's so funny about wanting to know how a female can 'live as a man' without resorting to gender stereotypes about how men live?

I agree with pp, it is a sort of greif and you should look to speak to someone unrelated to the situation to help you work through your feelings.

MAn and woman can be defined with things that can be observed , measured and that remain consistent across different cultures.

So some people are happy with that def8nition and don’t understand a definition that relies on feelings. We know that when someone says they feel like a million dollars they don’t mean they are a million dollars. They mean they feel great.

I found it very interesting that’s whilst studies suggest that the rate of gayness is consistent across all societies and cultures , even in cultures where it can mean death, trans rates vary very much and correlate strongly with homophobia and strict gender sterotypes

Beerflavourednipples the arguments used against gay people and intersex people in the bioethics literature are identical to the ones used against transgender people and the one she you are using. This is a rather well known academic point which you don’t seem to be familiar with but don’t let that stop you.

How does the OP’s female to male sibling threaten women’s rights?

Because male bodied people want to use women’s spaces/be in women’s sports.
Is this a hard concept?

Beerflavourednipples the arguments used against gay people and intersex people in the bioethics literature are identical to the ones used against transgender people and the one she you are using. This is a rather well known academic point which you don’t seem to be familiar with but don’t let that stop you.

Hang on... Do you believe that humans can actually change sex then? Are you just talking about people who have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria? Because most people who come under Stonewalls 'trans umbrella' do not have any such diagnosis and have no intention of getting one? Or do you believe that people can 'self identify' as any sex they want? And you can't see any problem with that? Do you have a definition of 'transgender person' for the purposes of this debate?

How does the OP’s female to male sibling threaten women’s rights?

Because if the words 'woman' and 'man' are meaningless, then it becomes impossible to protect women's rights.

I see my post got deleted when I responded to someone saying that Mumsnet was anti-trans. Talk about cut off your nose to spite your face Mumsnet!

What exactly is offensive in saying that gender is a made up concept, humans cannot change sex (biologically impossible) and that society is to blame for
reinforcing gender stereotypes and making ppl feel like there are 'in the wrong body'?

OP I agree that counseling might help, NOT because there is anything wrong with you but because this change is something you are going to have to come to terms with like any other loss. You are losing your sister so it will feel like a bereavement of sorts.

I don't even know what advice to give the OP because I don't know how to deal with this situation.

What I do know is that I am horrified that we are living in a society where there has been a huge increase in the number of young women who want to cut off and mutilate perfectly healthy body parts and render themselves permanently infertile. I am also horrified that so many people (including some people on this thread) are seemingly OK with this.