To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

I say I am an atheist and believe in science.

But atheism is not a religion and science is not a faith

Science is not a matter of blind faith like religion, and it is misleading to children to compare alongside religion.

Many schools in the US teach evolution alongside crationism as two " options"

I told my children we have no evidence to support the idea of god and that christianity is something that people made up.

Beyond that there is zero evidence.

They seemed to get that.

You expect the school to agree to exclude your child from assemblies because you are anti religion? Correct me if I'm wrong by all means OP.
How do you suppose that would help his education?

As a teacher, my thoughts are that you have told school your children should not attend assembly. That should be carried out. However, I really worry about children being withdrawn from school activities at their parents request. In my experience, most children hate this as it singles them out. They get to stay in class away from their friends, don't get to partake in class assemblies if they have any religious content and also don't experience the collective element of celebration. I am not of any religious faith at all, but have held assemblies with hymns and prayer thousands of times in my career. I have not been indoctrinated and neither have my DDs who also had this in school. I wouldn't expect children to join in with singing or prayers if they chose not to, but to experience collective worship can actually be quite uplifting. It's all about understanding everybody's differences, and withdrawing children from that smacks of being very narrow minded I'm afraid.

The teacher is choosing to go against your wishes. She'd be in big shit if she did that at my school. I'd email the teacher again cc'ing in the head, making it clear that you've asked in writing twice before and that if it happens again you'll be making a formal complaint. It's not her decision to make!

You know what does piss me off though.... a teacher at school said to my dc. I once knew a Muslim... they were very nice.
1 it made us sound like we were some kind of rare breed. But if you go 5 minutes down the road their is a large Muslim community. Not that we partake in the community much.

1. Made it sound like they were surprised the Muslim person was nice.

Dc came home so pleased that he wasn't the only Muslim....And that Muslims can be nice. I was a bit I said to him why would you think because we are Muslims we are not nice....

That and he isn't the only Muslim in the school and one of his teachers is a Muslim too....

All very strange.
I don't actually think religion belongs in any school and should be a private thong within your family and community.

It is absolutely your right as a parent and I think a word with the Head will ensure that that message reaches the teacher.

However, it is worth considering how much of an assembly is religious, and whether the tone of an assembly changes depending on the day or who delivers it.

At our school, the only religious element on most days is a prayer at the end that children are invited to join in with. Children who are not religious, do not join in.

Songs are not religious, and the message is usually one of self improvement, celebration of achievement, information about clubs or forthcoming trips.

At your school is it possible that, at least on some days, the assembly has virtually no religious content and the teacher thinks your child would benefit from attending?

Is it possible that on some days she is involved with the assembly in some capacity so cannot supervise your child?

Is it possible that your child sometimes looks like they want to attend, even if they don't want to admit that to you? I did have a child in that position once. It was quite uncomfortable keeping him out of assembly, knowing he was going to miss out on something fun, seeing him get quite upset about it at times actually, or left out of chatter afterwards.

“It's all about understanding everybody's differences, and withdrawing children from that smacks of being very narrow minded I'm afraid.”
I presume you also hold humanist and completely secular assemblies so that Christian children can “understand people’s differences”? And assemblies using Muslim and Jewish prayers?

Thing not thong! And I meant we don't partake in the Muslim community much. Mainly because of the culture clashes and we have our own little circle of friends within the same religion and we socialise more with our local community (village)

I agree your decision to exclude should be respected as you are the parent. But.... personally I think it’s all a massive knee jerk over reaction to prove a point - not pointing directly at you OP but just in general
I agree.

If a few assemblies and Christmas/ Easter activities were the best form of brainwashing and indoctrination then churches would be full. Plus, schools teach about multiple faiths anyway which is hardly the path of places intent on brainwashing to a single belief.
I do find the 'my child shouldn't be involved' approach to be more knee jerk and closed off than people who accept lots of experiences.

Whilst I am religious, you are allowed in law to withdraw your children from religious assemblies and this should be accepted and take place. I think a letter to the school copied to the chair of governors should be sent.

I agree with the sentiment that your children may feel left out which you should consider, even if just how to try to overcome that. What I also hope is that your children are being brought up to understand that there are people (In Scotland and elsewhere) of faith, different faiths and of none, and not to be hateful about those who have different beliefs. Though less than historically, sectarianism does exist in some forms still in Scotland.

My school certainly does. But then our assemblies are put together by an atheist RS teacher. There is a prayer at the end (school of a Christian Ethos) but very few of the children join in. Secondary does seem to be a bit different on that note though.
It's one of those occasions where in England you realise that many parents don't realise that schools aren't entirely secular. If parliament ever gets itself in a position where it can discuss more than one issue this is something they should look at.
But back to the OP. She has made her allowable request. Our opinions on the request (or the teacher's) don't change the fact that the request should be acted upon.

The child should be withdrawn. It is the wish of the parent and there should be no argument about it. Parents are given the right to do this and should be allowed to exercise that right.

I hope you are able to make an appointment with the headteacher this week. It is quite extraordinary that a teacher told you that you were 'silly'. This should be addressed at the meeting too.

I agree with soon to be. As a non religious person myself, I wouldn't keep my kids away from anything like that as I want them to be open minded to all faiths. It's not working though as they are growing up to be raging atheists

And what maisy pops said!

Religious worship does not belong in schools, it's bloody crazy that school are still obligated to do this, who else other than the christian church gets access to free marketing to vulnerable minds, sure educate kids about religion - worship is not appropriate and it should be removed from state education. OP my kids were taught by a religious zealot at a normal state school - I challenged her frequently on her approach - I cared not about her eye rolling.
Thankfully we moved school - not for that reason though... but you know on reflection the culture that allowed that teacher to over step ran through the whole ethos of the school - the head teacher did not have the courage to stand up to her (or any of the teachers).

“as I want them to be open minded to all faiths”

So why are assemblies always Christian then? Why is there no requirement for Christian children to be open minded about other faiths and none?

Do they take part in nativities at Christmas?

I don’t understand why you’re so against it tbh. I wonder what you think will happen...... it’s your right of course, I’m just surprised to feel so strongly.

My two went / go to catholic school and they learn about other religions as well. I’ve said that I believe and that they’ll make their own minds up. My son is 12 and says he doesn’t believe. He believes in the Big Bang. My brother is the same, it’s not a big deal.

My two wouldn’t be upset to get out of assembly though like some have said. They find them so boring. I reckon they’d love it if I said they couldn’t make it 😂.

Speak to the head and reiterate your feelings. I hope it gets sorted for you x

I love how if you’re an atheist you’re expected to just let your children take part in religious worship and told to shut up but if you’d posted this and said you withdrew them because you were Muslim/Sikh/Jewish etc I bet the answers would be totally different.

OP you are not unreasonable, your sons’s teacher is completely out of order. You have the right to withdraw your kids from religious indoctrination (not at all the same as RE where you learns facts about religions). I’d be going mental

If you request it they should honour it but it seems quite over the top to pull your kids from assemblies - I'm guessing you don't celebrate Christmas or have Easter eggs or any vaguely religious connections to anything as you are taking the extreme measure of singling your kids out? Religion in school is about exposing them to what some people believe rather than indoctrination, so they have an understanding of the world around them.

No matter what the debate about religion in school the school, by law, has to run daily acts of collective worship which is broadly Christian in character. Obviously the definition of broadly Christian can vary i.e. between a church school and a community school but they are all religious to some degree. This is what you would call assemblies, so all assemblies should be "religious". Parents have a legal right to withdraw their child from Collective Worship and should detail how to go about this in their Collective Worship policy. I think a formal letter sent to the headteacher is the usual way forwards, so I suggest a letter sent explaining you are upholding your right to withdrawal. Send a copy to the head, chair of governors and each of your children's teachers to get the message across. Problems occur when a child's parent has withdrawn them but the child is desperate to attend, so make it clear to your children that they will not be attending assemblies from now onwards.

Religious education is separate from collective worship and the school should hold details of their agreed syllabus (try googling your county or local authority agreed syllabus to see what it is). This is taught as "this is what Hindus believe ..." or "this is how Catholics use the rosary" etc. Again, you have a right to formally withdraw your children from all these lessons, but to my mind it is essential education to develop understanding and tolerance in a multi-faith/belief society. Religion exists and parents who try and hide that fact from their children are storing up bigger problems of how children find out about it.
A point you will want to clarify with the school. If you don't want your child to be involved with religion in school what about the various activities linked to religious celebrations across the year; Christmas - including plays, carols, Christingle, cards, craft activities - Shrove Tuesday, Easter, Eid, Chinese New Year, Diwali ... etc.

Sorry if I have missed it but have you ensured he isn’t going because he wants to?

I think as parents we often forget that our children don’t have to have the same views as us!

I think we’d have less intolerance if people didn’t run away from alternative beliefs.

I suspect parents withdraw their kids because they’re uncomfortable with answering difficult questions.

So while I can see why you’re annoyed, it’s a shame you’re doing it in the first place.

If I was being indoctrinated I would not have learnt other religions and religious ideas alongside this in a similar fashion or be taught that one should respect all different beliefs

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that you were taught about other religions in the same way, Tweety. Not unless your school held assemblies according to the tenets of all these other religions every day and made the pupils go to them.