To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

From what you've said it sounds like this isn't a mistake or inadvertent, but an attempt by your DC's teacher to subvert your right to withdraw him from religious participation. If that's the case you should make a formal complaint to the school about the teacher's actions. They're more than unprofessional, they're an abuse of power.

No that’s what you think so that’s what you want to tell me .

I don’t believe I was being indoctrinated . I was learning a concept of god and religion in the context of the state religion .christianity . The hymns had many recurring positive and universally good messages that were acceptable to anyone ; religious or not . I also learnt a whole load of things about other religions .

If I was being indoctrinated I would not have learnt other religions and religious ideas alongside this in a similar fashion or be taught that one should respect all different beliefs . I certainly wasn’t taught to accept these as my beliefs or feel I couldn’t challenge them or say what my beliefs were . So no . I was not being indoctrinated .

I wonder how many 'Christians' saying "whats the problem", would not be too happy having their DC sing about the wonders of Satanic worship in assembly? After all, what harm could it do?

Bloody religion in schools .... ARGH!! Teach theory by all means, teach as fact and I get the arse too!!

I'd ask for a meeting with the head ... and ask why a non faith school sees fit to do such a thing

Tbh if this kind of shit doesn't indoctrinate people then there's no point doing it anyway so just pack it in.

What are the school supposed to do with your children when not I assembly or class with the rest??? Are they having to go and sit with another class/year? I would think that is drawing attention and you know how kids don’t like to be different. They are not being asked to join in, simply to sit there. I went to a catholic school all the Muslim children came to religious assemblies and would simply not join in during prayers hymn ect. I think you should see this as your issue and ask when these lessons/ services are taking place and go get your children if your not happy with them being in the same room with after all what is just an adult talking.

What are the school supposed to do with your children when not I assembly or class with the rest???

What an ignorant comment. What are the school supposed to do when children of religious parents have to leave the class to go off and pray/worship?

Answer: How about we leave religious indoctrination to choice and parents can take them to SUNDAY SCHOOL @ the church if they really want.

Id be furious OP, they need to respect your wishes on the matter. Calling you silly for pulling them out is completely inappropriate, its almost like a "shame them into belief" tactic
I pull dd from all religious crap at her no faith, government school. I feel religion has no place in a public school The bible should never be taught as fact in a school.
I have no respect for a mythological teaching that allows homophobia, sexism and discrimination, it in fact feeds of it. I send dd to school for an education, not a religious brainwashing, if i wanted that id take her to church.

Those who claims hymns aint all bad, dont indoctrinate. Well how do you explain their words, usually praise the lord, love the lord, follow the lord or whatever and the fact they done in a style that earworms and gets stuck in your head? They are designed to indoctrinate and brainwash

The situation you describe is not on, OP.

You need to send a letter to the Principal and ask for a meeting between you, the Principal and the teacher, and if this is not possible, then you need to get the Principal's guarantee that the matter will be addressed with the teacher and that your child will not be included in any religious events whatsoever from now on.

In view of the fact that the teacher seems pretty determined to impose her views on your DS and blatantly disregard your views as parents - in fact, since you seem to know of active disparagement of your views on the part of the teacher - I think you would be justified in asking that no negative repercussions be visited upon your DS by this teacher as a result of your views and asking that they be honoured, and you would be wise to ask the Principal to tell you how the situation will be monitored.

OP hasn't asked for opinions on her decision! She knows what she wants to do (withdraw child from these assembles).

The school needs to respect that. İt is her right to decide, not the school's.

( I am a Christian who grew up in a non Christian home. No one has the right to force their views on some one else).

I had no idea when dd was younger that she could be excluded from religious assemblies and did have to grit my teeth a bit in the beginning. Luckily in her school indoctrination is low and dd has decided she’s a non believer with no input from dh and me either way. So anecdotally it doesn’t follow that children will automatically believe.

Dh is French. Individually people can practice the religion of their choice. However the French constitution states that the population is secular and religious teaching is prohibited in school. In saying that a high percentage of the population is catholic and it’s still common for children to prepare for communion.

I agree you need to take this higher. However I would also take your dcs views into account as they get older. Are they ok to be looked on as different? Dd was very aware of the boy, who was removed from certain lessons etc. His parents were ultra religious and he wasn’t allowed to learn about other faiths or attend assemblies.

If OP was Muslim and gave that as a reason, I guarantee you would not be seeing the same people on here saying "let it go".

Religion does massive harm. Especially Catholicism and it's branches. Telling kids they're being constantly watched and judged against a set of values from 2,000 years and they'll suffer an eternity in hell if they don't toe the line. Why would you subject your children to that?

Even the story of Noah's Ark is about a deranged psychopath who killed everybody (animals included) with the exception of an elite few just because he flipped.

You either believe that story is true, in which case you're a psychopath yourself. Or you don't, in which case there are many better examples of morality to be found elsewhere. It really has no place in modern education (or life) other than simply to discuss as an example of the nonsense humanity has peddled.

It gives a warped world view of right and wrong, science, history, and nature.

I'm completely with you, OP. Kick up as much of a fuss as you can.

This is really simple. Whether or not people agree with your withdrawing them, you have, as is your right. And it is being over-ruled. It sounds like you've already talked to the teacher? Check the school complaints procedure but imagine the next step is a formal complaint to the head. (Use the word complaint.)

Also, completely ignore @Confusedmum1 - she clearly is very confused.

If this is a government school, though I have no idea how schools in Scotland work, but by definition a government school is secular and non-religious so shouldn't legally allowed to have religious assemblies. That's outrageous to me! Private faith schools, sure, but what are secular govt schools doing having religious assemblies? That makes no sense and I would withdraw my child/ren from that school and send them to a non-religious school.

How would Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims and Jews, even Scientologists and Atheists go with these assemblies? Surely they would be excluded?

I honestly do not think 'assembly' with a hymn did me or my offspring any harm at all (when we went, often late and managed to avoid). The OP is dogmatic in her dislike of it which could have the opposite effect on her children to the one she desires. I'm sure if my parents had said I couldn't take part, I'd have been so curious that I would have wanted to.

I presume the op is a 'militant atheist'. I couldn't care less frankly but morning assembly is not a big deal for most people (in my day, boring), & when kids get older they make their own minds up anyway - unless parents have indoctrinated them in some way or another.

Always nice to read a comment saying you're a psychopath first thing in the morning. Thanks.
Back to the point. The issue of religion in assembly is actually a red herring here. Regardless of our opinions on this, OP has exercised a right that the teacher in question is now ignoring. Whatever the teacher's personal views are on this is irrelevant (and she shouldn't really have expressed them to OP). I would be taking this up with the Headteacher as your reasonable request is being repeatedly ignored.
But I'd also take reassurance from the fact that most pupils seem to drift off in assembly and don't really pay attention!

Have you considered the importance of awareness of biblical references for his wider education? Understanding Biblical allusions in art and literature are key for his future success.

Opting out generally means disruption because the children leave for the last bit which is the hymn. Assembly is when school wide information is promulgated.

Jessstan2
You might be interested to know that the person primarily responsible for the extension of the principal of separation of church and state to public schools in the US was John Hughes, first RC archbishop of New York City, who was appalled that RC children in the NYC public schools were forced to participate in protestant prayers, read books in public school libraries that referred to drunken and depraved Irish, and be exposed to theological views in contradiction of RC doctrine.

Not a militant atheist by a long shot.

When I was at school, non-Christian pupils were exempt from 'assembly', at least the hymn singing bit (came in later for announcements), it wasn't a big deal. We had Jews and others who did their own thing with Jewish teacher (wonder what they would have done had we not had a Jewish teacher), then joined us.

My offspring had same. It did not influence them one bit, they made own minds up. Most kids are the same. Parents have the greatest influence, not schools.

All available via Google, Scarydinosaurs, along with explanations of the many references to Greek and Roman civilisation and history that crop up, and pretty much every other subject under the sun, for anyone curious enough to do some digging.