Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

999 replies

pineapplepenthouse · 19/01/2019 00:09

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

OP posts:
SchadenfreudePersonified · 22/01/2019 20:55

You, unfortunately, are damned to hell.

I don't believe that anyone is damned because they do not profess a belief in God, or in Jesus.

I know many people who describe themselves as atheist or agnostic, but who live lives that are a good example for many Christians; similarly I know many professed Christians who give faith a bad name. I believe that God gives everyone responsibility for their own behaviour - good or bad and judges accordingly.

DioneTheDiabolist · 22/01/2019 20:57

Good result OP.Smile

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 22/01/2019 21:03

A storm in a teacup, OP, glad it was resolved so easily.

The direction this thread has taken is fascinating. I don’t think I’ve read such impassioned views since the last vegan thread!

Dahlietta · 22/01/2019 21:08

If you read or listen to how brutally traumatising it is for people to deconvert from catholisism you would not be saying people can practise any faith they want.

Sorry, what? I know more lapsed Catholics than you could shake a stick at. I don't know that they've tried to 'deconvert' (whatever that means), but I wouldn't say they were brutally traumatised.
Personally I find the indoctrination into the religion of sport quite sinister, but that's for another thread.
Anyway, good result, OP. Did you tell the teacher that her absence on that day had resulted in this bumper thread of lunacy?

crimsonrose19 · 22/01/2019 21:19

Schaden I think llizzie is confusing me with someone else too. It's odd. Confused

SchadenfreudePersonified · 22/01/2019 21:22

Yes crimson - I noticed that Lizzie seemed to have become mixed-up as regards you, too.

Strange.

myrtleWilson · 22/01/2019 21:33

@blueslippersocks is racing ahead in the 2019 award for dogmatically sticking to their own perspective despite the OP (and other posters) patiently correcting them on several occasions. Quite how the OPs children will possibly manage to learn about other religions through attending RE classes but not attending the monthly heavily religious assembly is beyond me.. Poor OPs children... lets crowdfund for blueslippersocks to have comprehension lessons more support for the children of clear bigots

TooManyPaws · 22/01/2019 21:50

From some of these posts on here, I must have dreamed about attending an Anglican school in a Muslim country, or that the parish Church it is attached to is now counted as a cathedral. I must also have imagined that the first film I saw, again in that same Muslim country, was about the miracle of either Lourdes or Fatima (I was only around four so just remember wanting to see "the lady in the sky" too) which was in Urdu, the language of another Muslim cou try.

crimsonrose19 · 22/01/2019 22:00

If you read or listen to how brutally traumatising it is for people to deconvert from catholisism you would not be saying people can practise any faith they want.

What absolute hogwash.

DioneTheDiabolist · 22/01/2019 22:11

If you read or listen to how brutally traumatising it is for people to deconvert from catholisism you would not be saying people can practise any faith they want.
PMSL.😂😂😂 I went to catholic school for 14 years. When I left all but 3 of my year group of 100 "deconverted". It was probably the least traumatic thing that happened in their teenage years.Shock

Villanellenovella · 22/01/2019 22:27

I think all the Catholics I know are very happily and untraumatically 'deconverted'.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 22/01/2019 22:28

God gives everyone responsibility for their own behaviour - good or bad and judges accordingly
God hasn't given me 'responsibility' for anything Confused Maybe its only Christians he does this for? And if that particular god dares to try and Judge me I will point out to him all the crap he has done and judge him accordingly.

I went to catholic school for 14 years. When I left all but 3 of my year group of 100 "deconverted"
Obviously they had never been indoctrinated converted in the first place (maybe their families weren't hardcore enough) and so never had to deconvert. The Catholic church is losing its power in the UK. Zeus bless the internet.

Dahlietta · 22/01/2019 22:36

Obviously they had never been indoctrinated converted in the first place (maybe their families weren't hardcore enough) and so never had to deconvert.

Nope, still no idea what you're talking about.

llizzie · 22/01/2019 23:45

llergictoironing Mon 21-Jan-19 20:58:46
If they had been given to science and medicine we may have had genetic engineering and cures for arthritis and so on, sooner

''I really don't get this, WTF is in the bible that could lead to genetic engineering or the cure of arthritis? There is nothing to suggest that pre-Christian people had anything like the kind of scientific knowledge that could lead to this kind of medicine. In fact, there are some branches of Christianity today that think things like these are meddling with God's work and are therefore sinful - even things like blood transfusions for some. And in the past just about all types of science were condemned as un-natural so against God. Anyone who was a healer and happened to be female would be condemned as a witch (unless it was pure midwifery).

You can't use the "that was the Old Testament, times have changed since then" argument and not consider that times have also changed in the 2k odd years since the New testament was written, the status quo of the time as you put it.''

I think the Bible is a very important account of how people with nothing to counteract disease and lawlessness lived to correct that. People are obviously still inclined to say we can learn nothing from it despite it's value today. You do not have to take my word for it.
You can read it for yourself or listen to it on CD or DVD and decide for yourself how much value it is for children today as an historic record.
There are few written records from other ancient peoples, but what there are were found by archeologists who first read of them in the Bible. There are indeed many records of ancient Greece and Rome and Hieroglyphs of Egypt, but are they as comprehensive? Parents do not just take their children out of assembly so that they cannot socialise with the whole school; they actively also prevent them from RE or scripture as we used to call it. It is not 2 thousand years since the NT was written for the ordinary people. It was not until the Victorians made education compulsory for all children that children learned to read and write. Before that, only a few privileged landowners were allowed to educate their children, so it is actually less than 200 years, and we still experience infections to this day which are not dealt with properly. Again, the Ebola outbreak was a stark reminder that there are still people in the world who do not understand how to manage cross-infection.
There are many instances in the Bible referring to disease and many other things beside. It is a history of people descended from Adam and Eve who kept a full record of genealogy. At one time they had very little problem with diseases. By the time Moses led them out of Egypt they were battling with contagious diseases for which there were no cures, rather like the Ebola outbreak in Africa 4,000 years later. when hundreds were killed and there was a lack of prevention. In the first five books of the Bible there are detailed records of how they stopped cross infection. They had no medicines. We can actually recognise some of the diseases described nowadays and which we still cannot cure. The prophet says 'I may tell all my bones' and other references to arthritis which we still cannot cure now. We call it hindsight. What would we do today if suddenly all our medicines and treatments disappeared? We would have to go back to ways of preventing disease spreading, but just this week flu has struck schools which are now being 'deep cleaned' thousands of years later to stop it spreading. I suppose the nearest we come nowadays is the times when because people do not take enough care, infections are passed on rapidly as in schools this week with flu. In a way the 'mad max' is a sort of reverse, where the remnants of an apocalyptic happening to the earth found themselves with very little food and turned into a lawless angry mob with little chance of survival. The Israelites started out that way and the Old Testament tells the story of how they lived. Now what we call genetic engineering nowadays, was credited to God, but the fact is that when Jacob made an agreement with his father-in-law that for wages he would take all the spotted sheep and he had a spotted ram which he ran with the sheep and most of them turned out spotted. Why did it take us millenia to do the same? King David burned down a grain and threshing store and tools, killing the animals because he discovered the seat of a disease which was killing the people in that town. Because it was ascribed to God should not make it less applicable today.

Now that schadenfreudePersonifide has said that I shall be damned in hell for the rest of eternity no doubt others will agree with that. I am saying that the Bible, both old and new is as relevant today as it has ever been and since the ordinary people of this country has been able to learn to read since just the middle of the 19th century children should not be prevented from reading it now, and if they are not allowed to read it for religious reasons, let them read it for all the wealth of knowledge it contains today.

SaturdayNext · 23/01/2019 00:07

@BlueSlipperSocks, remember those teachings about not bearing false witness? Yet you've made up on the basis of no evidence whatsoever the assertions that no children in the school other than OP's are withdrawn from religious assemblies; that her children don't attend any assemblies; and that the headteacher has told her to fuck off.

As for Hopefully one day soon you will see fit for your children to learn that people have differing views on every matter and will do throughout their lives. Somehow I doubt you will allow them to forge a viewpoint that differs from yours - again, totally fictional, because you know perfectly well that OP's children go to RE lessons where they will certainly learn that people have differing views on religion.

If you want to know what a bigot looks like, try looking in a mirror.

llizzie · 23/01/2019 00:08

Bertrand: I could say to the Christians in this country who claim persecution because, for example, some uniform regulations forbid the wearing of a visible crucifix that there are plenty of countries where things would be much worse. But I don’t. Because it’s not relevant.

It's relevance to me and many others is that the empty cross is a symbol of the resurrection and some people do not like to be reminded of that. It is counter to muslim women complaining that they cannot wear the burqa which hides their face. There is no comparison. I will not sit, be served, taught by someone whose face I cannot see. I last travelled in the Middle East in 1983 after about 8 years and I only ever saw one woman wearing the full dress and then she was criticised by other muslims. This show of devotion is new. It did not exist in the Middle East except that women wore full length clothes to protect from mossies, as did I.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 23/01/2019 00:42

llizzie I assume you are a young earth creationist?

Travisandthemonkey · 23/01/2019 00:58

God I wish people on this thread would just shut the F UP
it’s ridiculous it’s still going

crimsonrose19 · 23/01/2019 00:58

The Catholic church is losing its power in the UK. Zeus bless the internet.
The fastest growing religion in the world is Islam. Global domination it’s aim. Perhaps that would suit better?

mathanxiety · 23/01/2019 01:01

And once indoctrinated how easy is it for a catholic adult to choose their beliefs?
If you read or listen to how brutally traumatising it is for people to deconvert from catholisism you would not be saying people can practise any faith they want.

I would love to know what you are reading or listening to, Walkingdeadfangirl. Maybe I could send you the contact details of my many untraumatised cousins and former schoolmates who are now Buddhists.

(Love your name, pure comedy in the context of this thread).

Travisandthemonkey · 23/01/2019 01:02

@llizzie

Your post is so incomprehensible I can’t even start to unpick it. It’s a mess. You’re all over the place.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 23/01/2019 01:04

crimsonrose19 How about we have a secular country where all religions (and none) are treated equally. No christian privilege, or Islamic domination, just equality.

TooManyPaws · 23/01/2019 01:25

Dear gods, @llizzie, there are herds of teal deer 🦌 galloping all over the place... 🤣

mathanxiety · 23/01/2019 04:11

Developing tolerance of the views of others is a great learning opportunity tho surely.
MrsSmythFarquarson

But I don't have to participate in a religious service of any other denomination in order to develop 'tolerance'.

I am not even comfortable with the notion of 'tolerance'.

It is a very peculiar word as it has imo overtly institutional ramifications. It's a word that I feel really only belongs in a society in which there is a state church and/or a long history of institutionalised intolerance. It's an attitude of the privileged and a stance of an institution that still occupies a privileged position.

I find it really odd that the anachronism of a state church can still exist. I am a member of an organised religion that was on the receiving end of state sponsored intolerance for centuries in the British Isles. My RC ancestors in both England and Ireland were obliged to pay tithes to support a church none of them belonged to. One distant forbear was hanged, drawn (around the public square by a horse), quartered, and had his severed head displayed on a spike outside a town in the south west of Ireland for twenty years after his judicial murder. He was a priest. My grandparents and parents lived in post-Independence Ireland, where the RC church was accorded a prominent position in the Constitution and also by popular acquiescence, with horrible results for many groups in society and eventually in the last few decades for the RC church itself. The fallout from decades of intertwining of church and state is still ongoing for the RC church in Ireland. It hasn't hit rock bottom yet.

I live in the US, where separation of church and state has gradually developed as the ramifications of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights have been revealed over the years since the US was founded. I can see many advantages to separation of church and state from the pov of social cohesion.

I think I can also safely suggest that I see many more advantages to separation of church and state for churches than a great many posters here might imagine.

Allergictoironing · 23/01/2019 08:58

Gods help us Ilizzie, your post has so many statements that show a basic lack of reading comprehension, and an incredibly insular view. I can't pick it apart bit by bit as that could take me all morning - and fill a couple of screens.

A few points though for you to consider. I agree that in general the Bible has only been available to be read by many for a few hundred years, that doesn't mean the world has changed SINCE IT WAS WRITTEN.

Yes there are various references to diseases and ailments in the Bible and how they were treated, and you also get that in many Greek and Roman texts; I don't know enough about the detail of the Arab, Indian or Chinese texts of the early Middle Ages & earlier to comment on those, but I do know much of our modern medicine is based on Arab texts. The Israelites did the same as all other races at the time and followed known best practice.

I really hope you wren't thinking when you wrote that the Bible BOTH OLD AND NEW is as relevant today as it ever was. There are massive chunks of the Old Testament which go against modern moral beliefs.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.