To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

What about fiction, cartoons, Santa, fairies, make believe, pretend games, tooth fairy, Easter bunny, all ‘not true’
I’ll give you santa and the Easter bunny but I don’t think the other fictions are ever presented as fact at school.

Many of the customs we follow at Christmas are from the old pagan customs e.g. WTF has Mistletoe got to do with Christianity? Same for Holly and Ivy, greenery in the house, trees.

These customs existed in pre-Roman Britain. As is the way with conquerors, the pre-Christian Romans hijacked the festivals and blended them with their own festivals, eg Saturnalia (Yule) and Quinquatria (Ystre).

When the Roman Empire converted to Christianity (4th century), these festivals became Christian festivals, but retained elements of the pre-Roman practices.

The same happened in other parts of the Roman empire. The Christmas tree has an equivalent in Germanic pagan tradition as does having a ham at Christmas the "Yule boar".

The Romans were excellent at this sort of cultural appropriation. If you visit the Roman baths in Bath, there is a Green Man, a potent pagan image, carved in a prominent position and the Roman name for Bath, Aquae Sulis, honours the pagan diety of the thermal springs, Sulis.

And all this stuff makes me glad I did classics at school.

I don’t think the tooth fairy and elf on the shelf are really comparable to the world-wide institution of religion.

I am not sure why people are going down this direction anyway. Op has made a choice that she doesn’t want her children attending religious assemblies. I know that they vary from school to school in how they are delivered and that are a requirement in Scottish education. It is also a requirement that children be found an alternative place to be when their parent exercises their right to remove the child.

They can also remove their children from sex education. I don’t believe that’s a good idea personally or professionally but after putting across my professional view it’s my job to ensure the parent’s wishes are met.

pinkyy its very much easier to form an informed opinion of religion as an adult if you are starting from zero, than if you have 14 years of being told about one particular branch as if it was fact.

You argument is nonsense. If people genuinely want children to chose their own way in an informed fashion as adults, then the indoctrination of children in schools or churches would be banned.

Might be because schools are legally obliged to teach religion in school in Scotland.and yes I know this because my son was home educated and they visited us once a year and that was the only thing we legally had to teach him and no I am not wrong or making this up before anyone asks .all children of School age must be taught religion

@M3lon I disagree. Many people leave religion behind after a lifetime of being taught about it. The more knowledge someone has, the more informed the decision will be.

I think that RE should be compulsory because it gives us an understanding of other people and cultures, literature, art and history.

I agree, but I don't even think it needs to be called RE. Cultural studies would be fine.

What about fiction, cartoons, Santa, fairies, make believe, pretend games, tooth fairy, Easter bunny, all ‘not true’

How many people throughout history have died because of or in the name of the easter bunny ffs.

Does the easter bunny say Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us... He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks?

Does the tooth fairy say a wife must submit to their husband? That men who lay with men should be put to death?

It's massively different and it's also my choice to introduce my kids to the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and elf of the shelf.

@LakieLady very true. Religion is generally the grass roots, the basics of formed cultures in most cases. Cultures should be taught along side the religious studies. I firmly believe that it should be taught in the way of "Roman Catholics do X because they believe Y", Saudi Arabians have this law because of believing the X religion demands Y" , "This is how the ceremony for X is performed..."

I think you need to pick your battles. This isn’t really worth stressing over.

Another point on the "make believe" stuff as that all adults are in on the secret knowing full well its make believe.

The people saying it doesn't matter, what if you couldn't afford expensive devices for your kids at Christmas so went along with the story that Santa delivers the gifts parents pay for.. so that's why Johnny got an iphone for Christmas and you could a colouring book.

And then they went off to school and were taught that in fact Santa distributes gifts based on how good you are. Would you have nothing to say about that? Would you be saying "well they'll grow up to realise its not true anyway?"

Felt exactly the same when my DD then 6 told me she was upset because she's a believer so she'll go to heaven and what if I end up in hell and we can't see eachother? Its fucking wrong.

pinkyy so its a total coincidence that so many people identify as the same religion as their parents then? Its the stupidest argument I've heard for a while and I've been on the Brexit threads!

For maximal free choice informed decision you let people find out about religion for themselves if they want to when they are adults.

You really don't create a balanced informed decision by telling someone what you think the right answer is over and over again from birth.

Its pretty obvious that this is true.

to be fair, I think Santa is a very damaging concept...almost on a parallel with wives submit to your husbands...that has eventually led to our current issues with toxic masculinity.

The whole be good and you get presents, be bad and you don;t, is very VERY toxic when it comes to a real world in very very bad things happen to good people and really bad people get to use their wealth as subconscious messaging for virtue/superiority/worthiness.

I've seen people's mental health destroyed because they can't believe some awful event would have happened to them if they didn't somehow deserve it....so give your kids a head start in life and don't teach them the message of Santa!

RE is compulsory in English and Welsh schools to GCSE level. I’m fine with that.
Expecting children to actually pray in order to take a full part in the life of their school? Nope-not fine with that. And the fact that it’s a statutory requirement is outrageous.

My two attended a CofE First School and went to all the church services and Nativity plays and all assemblies. They have been to weddings where hymns and praying were part of the service.

DS1 dropped RE for GCSE but DS2 did it, I believe all of his year did.

They are teens now and neither of them believe AFAIK. They have decided for themselves.

Whatever anybody thinks, the fact here is the teacher is breaking the law. A request by the parent has been made for their children to be withdrawn from religious assemblies, the law says this must be acknowledged and upheld. The teacher has knowingly ignored this request, and in doing so is breaking the law.

The link has been provided by a previous poster.

Yes, ultimately the teacher needs to abide by the written request handed in by the parent.
Also I think it's odd that they know one twin sits and colours in reception while the other is made to go to the assembly and no school staff have queried why that is?

A chat with the head should sort all this out.

They are totally unreasonable. I'd send a formal letter to the head to raise the issue, and if it happened again I'd write to the governors. You have a right to withdraw your children from religious worship.

A quick story about my experience of a religious teacher ramming our young heads with her Christian beliefs. She used to do full on assemblies but was also the choir teacher, we used to sing a song about a muck spreader, 'fling it here, fling it there, if you're standing by then you'll all get your share'. One day she wasn't in and another teacher stood in for choir practice, we were absolutely delighted to learn a new bit to the song about a vicar that sprayed with muck too!

Haha, it felt so naughty.

Religious worship is not synonymous with religious education.

If they're truly interested in educating children about religion, then they will arrange proper religious education classes, involve representatives of multiple religions and employ a fact-based approach talking about what the different religions believe, how they worship, etc. But they're apparently only interested in Christianity, despite the fact that as a non-denom school there will be children from several different religions in attendance and plenty of non-religious children. Praying and singing songs about God(and only Christianity's idea of God) is not education.

I've actually found a link for the muck spreader song, its on You Tube!

Surely by allowing your children to be involved / exposed to these assemblies then you are allowing them to make the informed decision to believe or not believe as you did at their age? The decision is only an informed one if you have introduced them to the alternatives.

My mum is a primary teacher and whilst she agrees with my view she also says it's a 'pain in the arse' for the teachers to get cover for the excluded kids

Why, OP? Surely they don't need every teacher and TA to go to assemblies? In some schools they actively use the assembly period for extra 1:1 work with pupils who need it.

I find it really funny how Islam Muslims have made it onto this thread.

Why are all the comparisons and justifications about what Muslims might or might not do is beyond me .