To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

Yes, ultimately the teacher needs to abide by the written request handed in by the parent. Also I think it's odd that they know one twin sits and colours in reception while the other is made to go to the assembly and no school staff have queried why that is? Yes Sparkling it's all a bit confusing.

Christians are perfectly well aware that Jesus was not born on Dec 25th, allergictoironing. It is his “official” birthday (much like the queen), as nobody knows when his actual one occurred.
The date was chosen as Jesus is the Light of the World, so it was logical to pick a day after the winter solstice when the daylight was noticeably returning, but far enough away from the shortest day on Dec 21st to avoid confusion with the pagan solstice celebrations...
Maybe if more people had attended their school assemblies, they wouldn’t be so woefully ignorant of their country’s Christian culture and heritage?!

Babdoc, I'm afraid you're showing yourself to be woefully ignorant there. This is only one of a number of theories as to the choice of 25th December for Christmas, and in its turn has pagan origins arising out of people celebrating the end of winter and/or the choice of dates for Roman festivals. It certainly isn't in any way the definitive version.

However, thanks for demonstrating the need for separate teaching of religion rather than imposing compulsory worship.

There are a number if issues here which are getting mixed up.

Firstly, if OP has a legal right to withdraw her child from acts of worship (I'm not quite sure of the position in Scotland) then she has the right. The school must abide by her decision and if they are still sending the DS to religious assemblies they are in the wrong and OP absolutely should write in and point out she has this legal right, has requested it twice and knows it has been infringed and now is absolutely insisting all staff memeber know her wishes and she wishes to hear in writing that the school has done this and no further incidents of him being sent to religious assemblies will occur. She can say she will be going to the governors or equivalent if this problem occurs again.

Totally separate is the issue of whether OP should opt out of religious assemblies, if attending helps make informed choices or not, if the school finds it annoying or inconvenient or can't understand the reasons, or if it's irritating in terms of the practicalities for looking after DS for school.

The simple fact is, if OP has the right to Opt out, school must act in accordance with her expressed wishes. End of.

OP what a shame that you're not giving your children the choice whether or not they want to follow a religion. They should be allowed to learn about it and decide for themselves

RTFT, Pinkyy, or at least read the OP's posts, so that you can avoid totally misrepresenting the facts. OP has made it clear that she's happy for her children to learn about religion, and no doubt if they are attracted to one they will be able to choose for themselves whether they want to follow it.

It's much more restrictive of her children's choice to make them go to acts of worship which relate to one religion alone. Can you not see that?

If you want teachers to babysit a child every time a subject comes that you don't like, you might want to consider private school or home school

Who has suggested that, Don Corleone? OP isn't withdrawing her children from subject lessons, she's withdrawing them from an act of worship, as specifically authorised by law. And it isn't a question of teachers having to babysit them: they can perfectly well sit in the hall reading under the eye of receptionists or play/lunchtime assistants,, or in any classroom where a TA is setting up for the morning or afternoon. It in no way inconveniences a school for one teacher or TA to miss assembly, and the staff member in question is probably delighted to be able to do so.

Pinkyy, why do you keep returning to the theme of OP shutting her children off from other views when she's made it perfectly clear that she's happy for her children to learn about religions in RE?

they can perfectly well sit in the hall reading under the eye of receptionists or play/lunchtime assistants

can they now? It's not the job of the receptionists to babysit and they have other things to do.
Who is going to fund the extra hours of the play or lunchtime assistants? you are not suggesting they work for free do you?

One parent doesn't want an assembly, one parent doesn't want PE, one parent doesn't believe in evolution, one parent doesn't believe a subject is age-appropriate, one parent doesn't approve of a certain book that is being studied, one parent doesn't allow to mention Christmas, Mothers Day... They are just as much allowed to remove their child.

Shall the school employ a full time teacher to keep the children on "neutral room" when something comes up that is not of the parents liking?
Worship in one thing, but hearing about a subject you don't like is another. So my point stands, go to another school or home school so you can monitor what your child gets into contact with.

Even if you're not religious, learning about different religions and their customs is really important. It's what will help society move on to realise that people's faith is something personal and to be respected.

Let your children join in and make their own decisions about religion. Neither myself or DH are religious but we let DD take part in these activities and have never even thought about saying she couldn't

IIRC there was two hymns and one prayer at assemblies. Other than that ts was classes putting on a show, news that we needed to know about the school and some presenting of certificates.
Or they would get someone in to talk about road safety or fire prevention etc.

I suppose one solution is for the school to tell parents who object to children not being in assembly to only bring them to school afterwards.

When is the child old enough to decide otherwise from the parent? If a 16 year old is removed from assembly by a parent can the 16 year old insist on going?

@DonCorleoneTheThird I should have to move my children to another school or home school because in 2019 it is still the norm to have religious worship in schools?

They do go to the normal assembly every Friday, it's just once a month the minister from the local church comes in and takes the assembly.

To explain when op is talking about religious assemblies she likely means an actual Church of Scotland minister and leading an assembly. Not a teacher saying a prayer at the end of a lesson about not taking to strangers. We have to have three a year I think. Or maybe it’s more. It’s around that figure.

As a teacher I have stood in a very, very large number of them. Most have been essentially stories about being a good person. Showing kindness and courage and moral fortitude. All good content gently delivered by a person with a dog collar on. Very occasionally we have had proper fire and brimstone with very specific religious links. Smart vicars know to avoid that or they don’t get invited back if we can help it.

We struggle to make our assemblies ecumenical as the local priest goes to the catholic school instead. We do now have an imam who leads lessons for the senior phase kids.

Parents can’t just opt their kids out of any old lesson because they don’t like it. And that isn’t what op is suggesting here.

DonCorleone why do you keep using the word 'babysitting'*?
The school has a legal responsibility to provide alternative arrangements for children whos parents wish to remove them from religious assemblies. It's not the OP's responsibility how they go about it, and it's got nothing to do with any of the other things you mentioned either.

Sorry - total cross post with the op

I'm 36, so primary was a long time ago but the children of a Jehovah's witness family were taken out for the prayers and hymns and returned after.

It was never a big deal and no one ever mentioned it.

I can remember wondering why, but it wasn't a bother and no one treated them differently.

You have the right to remove them for prayers and hymns. I didn't want my kids exposed to religion before they were old enough to decide for themselves but it's actually worked out fine and whilst they both decided they wanted to be christened, my eldest has now decided she doesn't believe. I don't believe. I don't think it's done any harm because they've never been forced into anything heavy.

@DonCorleoneTheThird

Not every lesson - just RE.

In fact, it would be better if it was struck off the curriculum altogether and parents could tell their children they were going to burn in hell, the earth is 6,000 years old, and that homosexuality is a sin in their own time.

@TheLostTargaryen

Very interesting first point.

Have to say that I'm quite surprised that despite being brought up as RC, you think that most Christians are sola scripta and believe Noah's ark to be an actual event.

Roman Catholics are the largest 'denomination' of Christianity in the world and are not sola scripta and many (if not most) hold the (authorised by the Church) view that many parts of Genesis are not literal historical events.

I’m a Christian, so obviously I don’t agree with the OP’s religious views; but I wholeheartedly believe in her right to hold them, and have the school honour her wishes. If we believe in freedom of religious expression, then we have to believe in it for all people of all beliefs and none. It might be different if these were secondary age children, or they were expressing a strong wish to attend - in which case OP should listen to them - but at primary age the school should respect the parents’ decision.

@Thesnobbymiddleclassone

You're wrong. A person's faith is not worthy of anybody else's respect just because it's their faith. It shouldn't get a free pass.

This would be damaging from all aspects.

As seen from your post, many non-religious parents would ignorantly present a wholly incorrect portrayal of religious beliefs and worship. Likewise, many religious parents could portray an incorrect version of other religious beliefs.

Religious Education is incredibly important for a formation of a child. I would rather my child learn about all religions from an educator than have my unresearched input about other beliefs and customs.

But I do reiterate that if the parent AND older child do not wish to participate in religious assemblies, that should be respected by the school.

@Tweety1981

Because the comparison is completely relevant. How they practice their religion has really world consequences such as how animals are slaughtered differently to meet their requirements, how women have to use a different entrance to men to enter a mosque, and how Muslim women have to cover themselves at the instruction of Muslim men whilst Western feminists convince themselves it's a sign of progress.

Religion poisons everything.

Do you need more help understanding or will you just willingly never get it?

I dont understand this hysteria about the kids attending an act of worship and praying. What do these things actually mean to kids anyway? A 'prayer' is just closing your eyes whilst you or someone else mutters something. Why take it all so seriously? Would you object to kids meditating?

Where do you get "hysteria" from, masterandmargarita? How is it hysterical for OP to want the school to comply with its legal obligations? If a poster came on here asking how she could make a school comply with its obligations to teach the national curriculum, or provide for children with learning difficulties, or comply with equality law, would you characterise that as hysterical?

And why use such a sexist term anyway?

I haven't got a problem with any man (or woman, though lets face it thats pretty rare because nearly all religions are patriarchal) - 'preaching' to my kids about being kind to your fellow human being - because lets face it they aren't going to be telling primary aged kids much more than that