AIBU regarding PE teacher, DD and her period?

[Tink2007]

My DD is nearly 13. She’s been having periods for 8/9 months. She came on yesterday. She said it was quite heavy and she didn’t feel comfortable doing PE today as she was worried about leaks and it being so heavy just left her feeling uncomfortable.

She’s never missed a PE lesson, she has done PE whilst on her period but it has always coincided with the end so has always been lighter. I said it was fine and I would jot a note in her student diary (as required) especially seeing as it was the first time she has come to me and said “‘Mum, I don’t feel comfortable with this today.”

So imagine my surprise when she came home from school and told me how PE went today. Her actual PE teacher was fine with her not doing PE but said the final decision was with the head of PE.

Now given she didn’t have her PE kit, she had a note and expressed her discomfort with doing PE I wa surprised that the head of PE tried all manner of ways to make her do PE, telling her a period couldn’t be “that bad”, she wouldn’t accept it as a reason again. Then said if she had a spare PE kit she would have made her do it, asked the other PE teacher to make her do it in her school uniform (which the other teacher refused to do) and pulled her by the arm to a standing position to bat a shuttlecock back and forth towards the end of the lesson. She simply couldn’t accept she wasn’t doing it this lesson.

AIBU reasonable for being annoyed? In an age where we are supposed to be empowering young women to have their voices heard, be confident in what they feel comfortable and uncomfortable with and voicing that but yet this teacher seems happy to ignore it and physically pull my DD to her feet.

I should add I do know the teacher in question - she was my PE teacher 22 years ago and it does sound just like her to be honest.

RiverTam

What are you talking about? A tick box exercise? Silly girls suggesting bowling? Didn't set parameters?

Surely the whole point in asking them what they want is not to set parameters? If they had said choose between X,Y and Z then yes that would have been a tick box because ultimately the school would have been in control of the options on offer, nit the students.

They were looking into staff training but it was quite expensive and they were concerned about investing in a member of staff who then leaves and takes the skill with them, leaving them back at square one.

They were also stuck for other options - not ideal for every PE lesson from yrs 7 - 11 to be zumba which takes you back to the original problem.

My dd left that school 4 yrs ago so don't know the outcome. Maybe PE teachers do need to be trained to teach other sports at college. I don't know how that works though. Are they trained to coach specific sports?

Just a quick update - the PE teacher refused to meet with me as she isn’t my daughters PE teacher but they deputy head of department and she doesn’t teach my daughter which has left me clueless as to why she felt the need to do what she did yesterday.

I ended up speaking with the deputy head teacher who was equally as annoyed at what happened and he said once my daughter had given the note, the note should have been respected. If there had been a problem, given my mobile number was accessible I should have been called.

He was equally annoyed and concerned about the arm pulling and will be discussing that with her and my daughter to ascertain how it was done. I respect this but I have made it clear I do not appreciate anyone putting their hands on my daughter in ANY way.

He did also ask which period this PE lesson was and when I told him he said break time was afterwards and he had seen my daughter and she looked very pale and upset.

It's sad you idea is that they are all bimbos who don't want to get Their make up ruined.

Where on earth have I said that and why have you so wilfully misrepresented me?

RiverTam said that it should be investigated as to why girls don't want to shower after PE. I said that in my school they didn't want to get their hair and make up wet (by having a shower). Nothing to do with them avoiding PE or because they were bimbos (I was one of them!!!)

Honestly. Talk about reading what you want to read and not what was actually said.

well, a good outcome from the deputy head, OP, and I hope he has a word with this PE teacher about their behaviour.

weetabix again with the reasons why things can't work. Obviously schools have budgetary restraints that need to be considered, and equally the faciltiies available ditto. Making it clear they can't offer the moon on a stick doesn't reduce it to box-ticking, it's treating the girls like adults in making them aware that they know there's an issue for some with the PE on offer, but that with the best will in the world they can't offer them everything and taking it from there.

what am I talking about? I'm talking about your endlessly negative misogynistic responses to these very real issues.

In our school it was because they didn't want to get their hair or make up wet - I kid you not!

please don't deny the strong implication your words make that this is a stupid reason to not want to have a shower. You also didn't mention this applied to you when you first said this, which would have altered your implication quite a bit. Did you never think yourself why you didn't want to get your hair and make up wet?

That's an encouraging response from the deputy head, OP, especially the fact that he noticed that your DD was upset. It's great that he's going to be speaking to the PE teacher in question about the arm pulling, that was wrong on so many levels.

@marycodie thank you.

Plus I actually think it's disgraceful that you school when to the effort of asking the girls what they wanted and then dismissed it.
They didn't just dismiss it. They looked into it. They found an instructor and then they asked parents for a voluntary contribution of £2/week. Not enough parents agreed to pay and the school couldn't afford it.

They were considering training but my dd has since left so I don't know the outcome. The teacher that was looking at doing the training has since left so even had the school managed to fund the training it would have left with the teacher. These things arent as easy to solve as you seem to be making out.

Op, I'm glad that the DHT is taking your complaint about the arm pulling and ignoring your note seriously.

I agree with cucumbergin, it seems nothing has changed regards pe since the 70s. Still awful teachers who despite a degree, seem no wiser about women's bodies. Or in fact can't just accept no as an answer.

WAG should be allowed autonomy in all aspects of life including pe. What's the point turning them off any exercise when apparently no one does enough. I guess boys don't quit at the same rate, therefore some other system needs organising.
The definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result. That's What's happening here.

please don't deny the strong implication your words make that this is a stupid reason to not want to have a shower

You asked why girls didn't want to have a shower. I gave you the answer. I also said the communal changing rooms were an issue. Funny how you've conveniently ignored that part of my answer.

Why did we not want to get our hair wet? Well, it was in the 80s when we all had the Lady Di flick, held in place with a ton of hairspray. I guess that was the reason.

And really? It's misogynistic to suggest that the answer to women and girls managing periods is to lessen the severity of a period rather than to make it easier for them to stay at home during their period? Is that not going backwards rather than forward?

I think that's quite misogynistic actually - to suggest that women should exclude themselves from going about their lives for a few days a month so that they can deal with their period.

I feel that some on here resent others who have taken the time to listen to their body/daughter's body while they have 'pushed through' when they didn't need to. It really does come across that way. I am one of the lucky ones where my period is concerned. Yet I know and do not doubt for a second the stories of many women on here are true, and I feel for them so much. No one should be forced into physical exertion when suffering cramps, stitches and heavy flows. No one. It is inhuman and surely breaches some type of physical human rights.

To those who say well what about those who say they have their period when they don't to get out of sport? To that I say you are basically looking at it backwards. Why don't girls want to do PE, so much so they are this desperate to get out of it? Also, I don't believe PE should be taught at high school level, anyway. It is a waste of time, it is trivial, it is a waste of school period (please pardon the pun I couldn't think of any other word) that could be spent on an extra class of English, Maths, Chemistry - anything, basically. PE should be abolished as a compulsory class. Have it as an elective. Get fit/play sport in your own time, school should be for academic learning imo. It is a waste of precious time for seniors.

PE has changed a lot since the 70s. A much greater variety of activities for one thing, the schools I’ve worked in (not in PE!) have had a gym and a dance studio as well as games hall, they wear track suits if they want and they don’t shower after PE.
If days off for periods (aside for ones you could get a doctor’s certificate for) become a thing I hope you won’t mind your dc not having teachers on a regular basis as most teachers are female.
There is actually a real issue for teachers going through the menopause as teachers have far less access to toilets than most pupils and periods can become very heavy/irregular. I don’t know the answer, but I don’t think it’s time off. I suspect the OP will have no trouble getting her notes taken seriously from now on!!

As far as showers, well where I live showers are simply not done in schools. No one showers after sport, I've only heard of that on American movies. Unless you're sweating buckets, it seems rather extreme to me. And I can say now, if we had showers at schools, that would be one more reason I would dodge PE. There is no way I would ever have a shower at school.

No one should be forced into physical exertion when suffering cramps, stitches and heavy flows. No one. It is inhuman and surely breaches some type of physical human rights.

Why limit it to periods though?

Is it ok to push anyone into physical exertion while they are suffering from any other condition? Do you consider that a breach of human rights?

I have always found that light exercise helps cramps and pain. Staying still actually seems to make it worse.

OP, the head PE teacher refusing to meet with you is not only absolutely unacceptable, but it is plain cowardice. I would actually tell the Deputy if you don't get an apology in person from the PE teacher, you will go to the media about your daughter being assaulted or make a complaint to the school district/board or whatever is the overseeing body where you are. The teacher should not have the right to refuse to meet with you, that is simply outrageous. Utterly outrageous! She can manhandle and stress your daughter because in her opinion your daughter had to take part, yet she doesn't have to meet her teacher obligations by meeting with you, a parent, with a serious complaint. Seriously, such double standards, so disgraceful! I would settle for nothing less than a meeting/apology from that teacher.

@Weetabixandshreddies If it is a child at school and if exertion makes things worse, of course. If it is in a workplace, surely there would be OHS guidelines to protect the worker. However, dealing specifically with school, if a girl is in so much pain, then there would be something very cruel and inhuman imo to force her to do something physically that her body cannot cope with.

Is it ok to push anyone into physical exertion while they are suffering from any other condition? Do you consider that a breach of human rights?

In my experience there is nothing taken less seriously than periods. so yes, should children/young people be suffering from any condition that would make sport difficult for them they should be listened to.

The thing is though, that most young women are going to be having their "suffering" once a month - and given how difficult it is to get any form of diagnosis for gynae conditions then its a different situation from a recognised condition.

Glad to hear the school are taking the issue seriously OP.

"PE has changed a lot since the 70s"

To be honest, it doesn't sound like it at all. The variety may be different, however the oppressive and abusive culture surrounding it, just by the OP's post alone, proves it has not changed at all.

As far as teachers and menopause, that's a good point. But where I see a difference is that being a teacher is not compulsory. Where as students must by law (up to a certain age, anyway) attend school and they have no choice at all in PE. The issue is about choice, imo. Not forcing girls (or boys) to do sport if they don't want to. If they prefer to use that school period/block/allotment whatever for revision or to select an extra subject to enrol in, they should have that choice. PE ads nothing at all to a person's life - except maybe to destroy any chance some had of enjoying it. It is a time waster. Imo schools should only be for academic learning and those who wish to focus seriously on their education should have that choice. It may make all the difference to their end scores.

If it is in a workplace, surely there would be OHS guidelines to protect the worker.

What protections? The rules, even under the EA are that ultimately if you can't do the job then you leave. You can ask for reasonable adjustments, but they have to be reasonable. Opting out of an entire chunk of the job isn't reasonable.

Not forcing girls (or boys) to do sport if they don't want to.
PE is currently compulsory so that would be down to the government to change. Individual schools can't just give students an opt out.

PE ads nothing at all to a person's life - except maybe to destroy any chance some had of enjoying it

Well that's not strictly true is it? Whilst I'm very much on the side of choice, PE adds a lot of value to many children's school careers.

I don't always agree with the delivery but I think its an important part of the curriculum.

Periods are not an excuse

Quite right - they're a valid reason

I am a teacher myself (yr 6).I also never allow toilet breaks during class time

You're an adult in gainful employment with students under your care - can you really see this as a valid comparison.

It is also not a valid excuse

See above.

If she is well enough to be at school she can participate

You really can't see how a child with heavy periods might be perfectly able to sit and do English but can't run around? Where is the sense in missing all her education that day when people just need to use a little common sense.