AIBU regarding PE teacher, DD and her period?

[Tink2007]

My DD is nearly 13. She’s been having periods for 8/9 months. She came on yesterday. She said it was quite heavy and she didn’t feel comfortable doing PE today as she was worried about leaks and it being so heavy just left her feeling uncomfortable.

She’s never missed a PE lesson, she has done PE whilst on her period but it has always coincided with the end so has always been lighter. I said it was fine and I would jot a note in her student diary (as required) especially seeing as it was the first time she has come to me and said “‘Mum, I don’t feel comfortable with this today.”

So imagine my surprise when she came home from school and told me how PE went today. Her actual PE teacher was fine with her not doing PE but said the final decision was with the head of PE.

Now given she didn’t have her PE kit, she had a note and expressed her discomfort with doing PE I wa surprised that the head of PE tried all manner of ways to make her do PE, telling her a period couldn’t be “that bad”, she wouldn’t accept it as a reason again. Then said if she had a spare PE kit she would have made her do it, asked the other PE teacher to make her do it in her school uniform (which the other teacher refused to do) and pulled her by the arm to a standing position to bat a shuttlecock back and forth towards the end of the lesson. She simply couldn’t accept she wasn’t doing it this lesson.

AIBU reasonable for being annoyed? In an age where we are supposed to be empowering young women to have their voices heard, be confident in what they feel comfortable and uncomfortable with and voicing that but yet this teacher seems happy to ignore it and physically pull my DD to her feet.

I should add I do know the teacher in question - she was my PE teacher 22 years ago and it does sound just like her to be honest.

that's why something incredibly radical needs to happen - my original point is what would workplaces look like if they had been designed by and for women. Yes, they would be very different indeed - almost impossible to imagine, I think.

And quite probably unsustainable. How on earth would a workplace cope with half of it's workforce absent for half a week a month?

oh yes, I can understand that and the pain management course described upthread sounds good. And I agree there are some similarities.

I simply don't agree that women and girls should be expected to 'deny' their biology to fit into a patriarchal set up that either ignores it or only begrudgingly and negatively accepts it and does the least legally possible. It's 2019, FFS!

Why cant you just trust other women and girls? They are the experts on their own periods.

Well, quite a few posters on here describe how they lied about their periods to avoid having to do PE or swimming so I guess that answers that question.

While women and girls lie and use having periods as an excuse other people won't automatically trust what they say will they?

I've concluded from Mumsnet that the majority of women have vastly different periods to me. I have very heavy very clotty periods every month, As a teenager these would last 2 weeks and I would regularly flood through everything, I have been permanently anaemic since a young teenager expect for some weeks during pregnancy when they realise iron tablets do nothing and I need an infusion.

Anyway, even now, I can bleed through a tampax in a hour, the most absorbing ones you can get and they can last less than an hour, I over flow moon cups, I have worn adult nappies at times to try and deal with it. There is not a chance in hell I could have done PE. Even now as an adult and the best my periods have ever been I bleed though things. It's difficult. We had a burglary last year, I wasn't allowed in my house as they were waiting on Forensics and I had no tampax on me, I bled though my clothes etc .

I could of course attend school, but PE definitely not. Why can't people see just because a period is a non event for them it isn't for others, I get so sick of Mumsnet attitude that periods are just fine and not something that's a problem or inconvenience. Someone dare say they spend £20 a month or more on a period and they Mumsnet mob will hand them because it can't possibly be that, they spend £2.50 so we must be lying. 🙄

I simply don't agree that women and girls should be expected to 'deny' their biology to fit into a patriarchal set up that either ignores it or only begrudgingly and negatively accepts it and does the least legally possible. It's 2019, FFS!

But other people do need to 'deny their biology' when coping with other conditions?

I am interested to hear your thoughts on just how it can be handled better.

@Weetabixandshreddies

Why cant you just trust other women and girls? They are the experts on their own periods.

Well, quite a few posters on here describe how they lied about their periods to avoid having to do PE or swimming so I guess that answers that question.

While women and girls lie and use having periods as an excuse other people won't automatically trust what they say will they?

I am not sure how to reply to people so please bare with me ....

But here lies the issue with all women, lets face it, here lies the issue of why rape and sexual assault claims are not taken seriously ... someone lies so that means people like you come along and say well I don't trust anything anyone says about rape because I heard of this case when someone lied. I am all for critical thinking but it's ridiculous if you write off thousands of women's experiences just because of a tiny minority of people who lied.

Why cant you just trust other women and girls? They are the experts on their own periods.

Well, quite a few posters on here describe how they lied about their periods to avoid having to do PE or swimming so I guess that answers that question.

no, it doesn't - it simply asks another question - why do so many girls want to avoid PE?

Yanbu. Based just on the fact that now, as an adult, with 20 years experience of dealing with periods, I would still choose not to do certain sports on certain days. I love sport so usually carry on as normal, but the option is there. It should be the same for a 13 year old

One thing that really annoys me - oh, OK, lots of things really annoy me - is people who say "Periods aren't a medical condition", "Pregnancy isn't a medical condition, "Menopause isn't a medical condition". Really, who cares whether you call it a medical condition or not? If it's causing you a lot of pain and distress, it doesn't matter a single jot whether you regard it as an illness or a "normal" part of being a woman.

I am a bit mmm about the amount of comments about drips. I have very heavy periods and play sports. You can avoid any dripping

Why are people so incapable of understanding that their experience doesn’t extrapolate out to fit every woman.

no, it doesn't - it simply asks another question - why do so many girls want to avoid PE?
Well, yes, it very much begs that question.

But it also says that many girls are lying about their periods (to get out of doing PE) which does suggest that it isn't a tiny minority like mummyhaschangedhername suggests and that the problem here is that girls are able to use periods as an excuse to do something that they don't want to do. That in turn chucks other girls and women under the bus, if they are genuinely suffering, because how can anyone tell the difference?

So really the only option, not to risk disbelieving genuine women, is to give all girls and women the option to nit participate if they don't want to.

But is that option workable? I'm quite sure at least half of the girls in my school would have sat out of PE if given the choice, maybe more.

It's not right that girls and women suffer so surely the ultimate goal is to make periods mire bearable? I don't think the goal should be to let them stay at home, and suffer there instead. Even if you are at home where practically it's easier to manage they are still having a big impact on your life aren't they?

If someone gave me the option of curing my illness, or at least greatly reducing the symptoms, or taking as much time off work as I needed when my symptoms flared I would choose the treatment because I would rather have the freedom to do what I want than be restricted by symptoms.

If I listened to my body 90% of my life would be spent in bed

Well that is an interesting way of twisting what I said. Are you utterly unable to see anything other than black and white?

I don't for one moment believe your pain clinic promoted a line of martydom either because it regularly causes deterioration in conditions. "Listen to your body" doesn't mean to stay in bed, it means understanding the difference between the times you can push through and the times it makes things worse.

But you seem to have a mindset of "I suffer so everyone else must as well". IME that is quite rare in long term attendees at pain clinics but I know people are different. You might want to consider that too.

Fundamentally, nobody is answering the question of why girls feel the need to avoid PE and why they are not diagnosed earlier where they have problems. Its simple misogyny embedded in society.

perhaps schools should sit down with their female student body and talk about what they would like to do with regard to PE. Acknowledge that they know some girls suffer with awful periods (and that staff may well have been dismissive of that which is wrong) and that other girls use periods as an excuse because they hate something about PE so much. Don't blame, don't criticise, just lay everything on the table and ask how they would like the PE aspect of the curriculum to be covered.

That could be a start. Stop imposing and start listening.

It's not right that girls and women suffer so surely the ultimate goal is to make periods mire bearable?

Well yes. If only women weren’t so routinely dismissed when they visit the GP.

I don't for one moment believe your pain clinic promoted a line of martydom either because it regularly causes deterioration in conditions.

Read my post where I copied a paragraph from a sheet I was given. The message was carry on going to work, pain won't me your condition worse.

I am told that by all of my HCP - the rheumatologist, gastroenterologist, orthopaedic surgeon and physios " the damage is done. You won't make it any worse". But I guess you know better than all of my drs?

I'm nit being a martyr. I can choose to give in (even only "listening to my body" on the really bad days would result in me losing my job) or I can carry on. I have no other choices. How is that being a martyr?

perhaps schools should sit down with their female student body and talk about what they would like to do with regard to PE.
My dds school did do that. Unfortunately their was no consensus other than zumba which meant the school buying in specialist provision which they couldn't afford and which parents refused to contribute towards.

Other suggestions were bowling and ice skating. Not really PE and even if you stretched the definition a)they cost money and b) can't be fitted into a 1 hour timetable slot.

It's hard isn't it when schools have to offer spirts for a whole group and not individuals.

But I guess you know better than all of my drs?

You appear to think you know better than 20 yrs of mine and everyone elses, including consultants and pain clinics at specialist centres.

Why do you assume that advice given to you about your condition (if that is even what was said) applies to anyone else?

Surely the first thing the pain clinic told you was that each individual is different even within conditions let alone across them? That is a recurring theme from every pain specialist I've ever met and in 20 yrs that is a large number of HCPs getting it wrong according to you.

"I suffer so everyone else must as well"

I don't "suffer" actually. I have an illness that is affecting me systemically. I don't suffer.

bloody hell, you are so negative! Shooting down absolutely everything.

Obviously, your DDs school didn't lay out the parameters of what could and couldn't be done. Sounds like they did it like a box-ticking exercise 'right, we did this, didn't work (silly girls suggesting bowling!) so now no-one can complain and they can just crack on'.

If zumba-style exercise classes are what girls would like and would participate in (and if this was done at schools across the board I wouldn't be surprised if that came up a lot, and the dept of education would get a clear picture) then PE teachers could be trained to deliver this style of class.

@Weetabixandshreddies

The thing is though this has been pushed wider than the usual purpose. The issue is PE.

If there exert single girl says she on her period and therefore can't do PE then that's an issue that ended addressed and looked at isn't it. But from my own experience and That of work within a school it's not an issue. Not every girl claims that.

I think it still comes down to an individual approach where trust and faith is put on the student.

If a student claims they can't attend any PE lessons due to thief period then perhaps a meeting needs called with the parents to discuss this every lasting period, but if someone is missing one weeks worth a month then it's more or less likely to be their period. Perhaps there needs to be more education around yeh use of different products girls can use so they can still participate. Perhaps it's a budget problem too. Perhaps they can only afford cheap pads that don't stay in place.

It's ridiculous to tar everyone with the same brush.

Plus, ok, so some women may lie, but why? Perhaps they have a negative body image, perhaps they are being bullied, perhaps they have self harm scars they are trying to hide ...It's sad you idea is that they are all bimbos who don't want to get Their make up ruined. There are plenty of ways of dealing with it. It's sad the Head or PE took this approach. But then judging my the amount of judgement on women whose periods are different, I guess that's the issue, women don't trust other women. It's all. Well I get a period and I'm fine or even I get heavy periods and I've never leaked, well then you haven't had heavy periods then have you.

Why do you assume that advice given to you about your condition (if that is even what was said) applies to anyone else?

A) I don't assume it applies to everyone else, though you appear to assume that advice given to you also applies to me

B)if that is even what was said so you can not believe me and that's ok but we should all believe absolutely what others say about their condition?

The paragraph that I provided is from a sheet supplied by the NHS. Google pain management NHS and you will see it there on the NHS choices website. It quite clearly says that experiencing pain won't make your condition worse, if you don't believe me.

And yes, I have been told that everyone's experience of pain is different, because it is subjective. That is one of the points of pain management - to help your brain "dial down" the pain signals so you are able to control how you experience pain.

I have to say, Weetabix, you do sound like you're carrying around a lot of internal misogyny, some of your comments about girls have made that clear. Which, as you have a DD, isn't great.

Pain clinics do regularly teach people how to carry on and deal with their level of pain. Not relevant to this scenario so much. But a lot of people live every day with pain that can only be reduced through medication and other means. It can not be eliminated. Pain clinics run courses on how to cope with pain, deal better with it mentally, and carry on with your life.
That is not martyrdom. But simply the best scenario for a lot of people.
Sometimes I think healthy people have no idea how much some people with chronic illnesses and pain deal with every day and still go to work, etc.

Plus I actually think it's disgraceful that you school when to the effort of asking the girls what they wanted and then dismissed it. Frankly if that's the case I would be putting in a complaint. While yes, we schools are very much struggling from massive and consistent funding cuts, that should have been honoured. It's not like they said they wanted to do sky diving or horse riding is it. The cost of some equipment and training is all and there are hundreds and grants for PE related projects that's they could have easily accessed. I am shocked at a school that would go to the effort of asking and then easily dismiss it when there were ways of getting that to work.

I feel awful for your daughter, I'd write to the governors of the school.