DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

Agreed he's not coming across as optimistic.

Sorry if you've mentioned this OP - how long have you been together?

🤔 but I do think that by wanting a prenup he can’t be ‘that’ sure it won’t end - right?

I’m bright and I had a solid career in London between 18-24 I moved home to do my masters with the intention of going back afterwards and really advancing my career.
DP is fixed here because of his job. He could ask for a job down south but;

A- he doesn’t want to
B- he would be VERY unlikely to get one as they allocate area based on priority. So if you want a desirable area like London you have to either be from London or have children at school in the area - they don’t accept ‘my wife wants to work there’

Kaytee funnily enough I was going to mention the 'optimism' comment by Hattie but I see it the other way round. Wonder why he's so optimistic about it.

Why get married? Seriously - what's in it for you?

@ultramic

2.5 years ish it’ll be 3 when we marry in summer.

I can honestly say though, this is the only concern I have. I have dated some bad men in the past but DP is lovely.
Kind, gentle, respectful, loyal, totally open with me. I have no concerns but this - however that doesn’t make THIS less of a concern

@toddle

I want to get married so we have the same surname- so we’re legally tied together as a family and so nobody ever questions whether our children were ‘planned’

Notice how that question never seems to come up when it’s a married woman announcing pregnancy? 🤔 I’ve certainly noticed. I also wanted the protection marriage would afford me as a PT worked/ SAHM

And yet he didn't think twice about using all of your savings on his property? That he could ask you to leave tomorrow.

I completely understand! You've been together long enough to know you want to marry, but it's hurtful he's finding it necessary to 'protect' his finances in case of a split. Not exactly the most romantic pre-wedding experience!

If I was you, and I'm not, I would hold off marrying him for a few more years. Enjoy the relationship, he very well may feel more secure and his attitude may change.

I would want to be on exactly the same page money and finance wise before marrying. I feel for you, this is a tough situation.

How would he react to you opening up a discussion about how it's making you feel?

@Gabriella

It wasn’t just property - it was also two holidays (my half) and some of it is still left within our big savings pot - but what was mine and what we have since saved together has merged!

You don’t sign anything you are completely happy with. But do consider that if you like to have a luxury lifestyle you should think about how to make that through your own earnings. You’re already at a disadvantage that he’s decided his career is more important than yours.
This is horrible for you, it’s like going through a divorce before you’ve even started.
Maybe you say ok but with an agreement that you reassess in the event of major changes, like children, unemployment, illness. If he loses his job, does he live off his savings then? So complicated.

Just tell him that having taken legal advice you don't agree for the reasons you have stated. And stick to it. He has a choice: either he marries you without a pre-nup, or you don't get married (with whatever that entails).

WTF does he think marriage means? That he gains while you lose?

WTF do you think it means? That she should gain while he loses?

The point of a pre-nup is to agree what's fair before you hate each other. It should not favour one person over the other, it's to put in place something that by taking the particular circumstances into account gives a fairer result than that blunt instrument that is normal divorce law would.

Yes the "blunt instrument" does give a better deal to lower earners, prenups recognise that in some circumstances this can go to far.

When me and DH got married I had a substantial inheritance that went towards the house. At no point did a pre nup cross my mind. In any marriage there will be ups and downs and in the end it should even out. I am currently working PT due to children so he is contributing more. But if he got sick or needed to change jobs then I would return FT so I would be contributing more.
What about if your DH gets sick and can no longer work? You earn all the money for years yet he still gets his £150k back? I also think it’s very unfair that you don’t have the chance to build up equity in the house because he made a poor decision. If he wanted it to be fair you should sell and buy a new place jointly together.
Lady Hale ruled against prenups being legally enforceable as she said they benefit the man in the vast majority of cases. She is far smarter than me so I would trust her opinion.

I don't think that wanting a prenup is necessarily a reflection of how sure he is about marriage. He is probably just going on the advice of his family and the fact that a lot of marriages do break up which is quite sensible.
I don't think that a prenup would be unreasonable when you are first married but it will be incredibly unfair a few years down the line if you have children and have done more than your fair share of sacrifices with regard to your career and potential earnings to raise them though. I think that you should only consider this if the prenup can be invalidated if you have children or after a certain time in the marriage? If he doesn't agree to this or it can't be done I would walk away as he is being really selfish.

@HappyHattie

Hi I read your post last night but don't think I posted maybe you've tagged me instead of someone else?

FWIW I think your getting a crappy end of the deal preparing to reduce hours/earning potential to raise both of your children. Should anything happen to walk out with less/nothing. I'd get a contract wrote up he is to pay you per hour for time with the kids if that's the case and see how rational he thinks that is.

If he gets the prenup he wants, then what is the actual point of getting married?

Expecting you to go part time when you have children, whilst he gets to carry on with his career is a massive red flag IMO. This is what will really screw you financially if you ever split up because it will be incredibly difficult to make up for those lost years in your career. Having children with men who don't pull their weight is the absolute worst thing any woman can do in terms of financial security. Marriage mitigates this somewhat, but not if there's a prenup that rules them out of having a fair share of the assets.

Obviously it's easier said then done but the long and short of it is:

You are giving up EVERYTHING for him. Just no. Either you go into this as 50/50 team, pooling everything, or you do not, you move to London, advance your career and meet someone else.

is necessarily isn't necessarily

YANBU - my immediate reaction is run cor the hills. However, maybe he hasn't thought this through completely.

You've already contributed your £7K to the household pot but have absolutely nothing to show for it. He is effecticely asking you to give up or severely restrict your career prospects and, therefore, your earning potential. I can sort of accept the original £150K, although I think his attitude stinks and isn't a good place to be starting a marriage, but you should insist on protecting your £7K. I know it sounds petty but it's the principle that matters.

You absolutely should not be signing away rights to his pension or earnings. Once you're married and you drop down to part time to care for DC, then hei s earning for the both of you. I'm sure he hasn't looked at it this way but he is basically saying that I want a women who will give me and look after my children and house but I'm not giving anything in return. In essence, you will be an unpaid housekeeper with benefits. Suggest that, when you go part time, you want him to employ you so you are paid a salary, NI contributions and a pension.

I suspect he will be horrified by this and tell you thst it isn't in the spirit of a marriage but it is, surely, the flip side of his coin.

Unless you can sort this perception of his out, then you need to consider if he really is Mr Right.
You also need to ask yourself what his reaction would be if you became ill/disabled and were unable to care for him/dc.

When you get married and have a family, your responsibilities are to caring and providing for that family. Yes, that means having an income and it shouldn't stop you having ambitions and a career but the career then has to cease being the be all and end all.

You are already vunerable (savings gone, living in his house) so you're right to be worried about your future vunerability.

I think I spy see some red bunting fluttering in the background and you need to be completely sure they aren't going to turn into big red flags before you commit anymore.

Sorry if that sounds brutal and clinical but sometimes you have to step back and take the emotion out of a situation and see if what's left is really what you want.

You need to spell out exactly what BlueLuna has said.

You should just change the house paperwork. Put you on the mortgage and write into it that on sale you get 7k and him 150k the rest evenly split. You also need the conversation about how much you will pay in, it should be % of salary and so monies in will change as you go part time.

Oh and make sure you write wills after so the money goes to each other or held in trust for dc.

My advice is not to have kids with this man. He's restricted your earning potential by refusing to move to London and expects you to go part-time if you have kids. Marrying will be a financial gamble for him but it's an even bigger financial gamble for you except that you'll have dependent kids as well which makes things even more complicated.

If you go the pre-nup route make sure he pays into a pension for you or gives you a "wage" that is not to be used for family expenses and is purely for you to save. He sounds like the sort of guy who would ask for itemized bills of what you spend on the kids after a split. I would expect any pre-nup to include a sliding scale of what you can claim. So in the first 2 years I'd expect nothing but after 10 years I'd want 50% of the 150k because surely he'd believe in the relationship by then.

OP, this is niggling you because this isn't what a caring and loving partnership is. I've read your posts and I see that you believe him to be decent but, if he does this now when you're at your 'strongest' and most independent, what will he do when you are vulnerable and a SAHP?

The thing is, you can't count on him to do the decent thing at all, can you? There a line in the marriage vows, "All that I have I share with you". Is he going to revise that?

I wouldn't marry him. If you think it's worth telling him that you won't accept marriage on this basis and you're either all in or all out, then do it - but don't enter into this feeling and knowing that it's a charade because it will destroy the relationship.

You're worthy in your own right and he's not 'all that and a bag of chips'.

This is your thinking time; use it well because it's a hell of a thing to extricate yourself from if and when there are children.

WTF do you think it means? That she should gain while he loses?

I may be misreading this but that seems to stink of the women giving up her career to care for the family is not worth or contributing anything of value.
By doing this, she is enabling the man to have a family/DC and continue with his career, increase his earning potential and build his retirement fund.

I think you have your answers here... the pre-nup suggested by your DP works ONLY in his favour... and leaves you in a very vulnerable position SHOUL D it ever come into play...