DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

He wants to "protect himself financially" so divorce doesn't hit him in pocket.

He thinks it's reasonable you should take a career hit, all the physical burden of having babies and raising them, but you should not be protected from divorce hitting you in the pocket?

He's sexist and naive at best. I wouldn't.

Can you get the prenup to include that if you split you get back the earnings you will have lost when on maternity leave or while a SAHM?

Your career is also an "asset you had before the marriage" and if the marriage (or rather, having DC) buggers that up then you need protection if you are suddenly on your own with no home and you need to earn, but can't as you have been out of the job market of xx years.

I reckon quite a lot of women would like a prenup like that . . .

You say you're “financially merged” already, but you’re not at all - his equity is his.

Any prenup that gives him back £150k in the event of divorce - which IMO isn’t U - should make provision for what happens in the event that that equity reduces. In a way that is fair to you. And takes account of your financial contributions to the mortgage and home improvements from the time you moved in, not married.

On your point that living with him in his property and contributing to the mortgage means you cannot invest in property elsewhere, as you have no savings you presumably couldn’t do so anyway. Without his money, which is hard for him to access without losing some of it.

In your circumstances, advise waiting until your career/earnings are well established before ttc, and strongly advice against SAH after DC, or even going PT.

I had £65k equity in flat when DH (then DP) bought a place together. I shared the equity and became joint tenants on the property. It wouldn't cross my mind to behave like your DP is.

This is a tricky one as he wants to ringfence the equity of the family home (in effect giving you nothing) rather than his initial deposit. Do you pay towards the mortgage/updating the house etc as this is not fair on you at all.

You need to talk to him and explain that to him. He needs to tell you what deposit he put into the house and ringfence that. You need to decide if you want to ringfence your £7k. You should not do anything else until you are on the deeds to it

If he wont agree you need to seriously think about whether you want to end up as a woman whose husbands career is his priority and who travels all the time and yet owns nothing in the house

Maybe if the prenup dissolved as soon as children come into your lives could be some kind of workable "compromise". Then his asset is protected in the event you really are "after his money"

Though why anyone would marry anyone they thought this about beggars belief.

Yeah, if he wants a load of other stuff in there, that’s a different kettle of fish, unless as PPs say he is equally focused on compensating you for working PT/SAH.

It’s odd given his attitude on this that he wants to be married - does he actually want to?

I sincerely hope @GunpowderGelatine isn’t a lawyer. Pre-nups are enforceable. People have them for good reasons. OP - my advice to you is agree to what he wants but make sure it ceases to apply on the birth of the first child or after x years (enough time to leave you in a position to start again). You should also, from day one, get a minimum amount out of the house, guaranteed, otherwise you will not be able to house yourself.

A pre-nup that gives you potentially nothing is a bad thing, and promotes strife and costs on a later divorce.

Op you need to keep talking to him so these issues can be discussed without lawyers involved !

Tell him to stop immediately with the idea of finding a family lawyer and suggest counselling .

Have you talked through with him how women are affected by working part time ?

I have equity in my own house but as soon as marrying my husband and having kids I saw it as a joint home.

All the points you raised are fair but I think the key thing here is communication so that it doesn't get too heated.

I think the whole idea of a prenuptial financial agreement undermines the concept of marriage. Marriage should only be considered where the parties believe they are committing to each other for life. There is no his and hers post marriage; it becomes ours.
If he’s insistent, it means he doesn’t trust you, and does not place your welfare and that of any children above his own. Whether it’s enforceable or not (I think not in U.K.), it’s not a good way to start out in married life.

“consumed by his career”, in his first serious relationship in his early thirties, v focused on his personal financial position but cavalier about yours.

Not great.

With respect to his work travel, if he is unwilling to change that it is likely to be a BIG problem if you have DC, unless you live v close to your work, can afford a nanny or have a lot of family help - v hard to find other forms of childcare to cover your full working day/commute.

The £150k in the property can be dealt with by tenants in common. Then you go on the mortgage and have some future security.

Either get a nanny and continue to work or he pays you a salary which you invest.

Are you paying the privilege of the lawyers fees for the pre nup?

Hattie, echoing what another pp said, and I'm not knocking you, if you don't want to work in the early years raising family, that's your choice, but these women who you say lead miserable lives juggling work with children, will most likely hugely benefit in the long term.
There is nothing wrong with being a sahm, if you have a good marriage and none of this financial headache hanging over you.

@GunpowderGelatine

If you were married and had kids and split up, and you were the resident parent (I assume you would be if you're going part time and he has a busy job) then you'd be legally entitled to stay in the family hone with children until they turn (I think) 18. He might want to rethink marriage if that doesn't sit right with him.

No - this is TOTALLY wrong. There is no "legal entitlement" for a resident parent to stay in the FMH until the child is 18yo.

Please don't post nonsense like this, it is wrong and totally misleads people who may not be able to afford legal advice.

My DH had a similar amount of equity in his home when we got married. I went on the mortgage when it was due to be renewed and he signed over the deeds with no talk of protecting 'his' money. He also earns 9x my salary (I was at home with toddler ds for 2 years and now work part time). As far as he's concerned it's our families home and our families money.
What does the pre nup say that you'd be entitled to? No one could be reasonably expected to walk away with nothing, especially if you sacrifice your career to look after his children.
Could he 'Pay' you a certain amount of money while you're working pt and you could put it back into your savings?
I could see why he would want to protect the equity in his house but beyond that I don't believe is actually what marriage is about.

I think he’s right to protect his £150 equity though and his house. I’d never marry without having my property protected! There is nothing stopping you from having an affair and taking half and so for that he’s wise.
I had a deeds in trust which prevented my ex taking my share (deposit etc) from me when he fecked off!

Why are you getting married if you signing a pre nup. Does your partner think you split up. You need legal advice here op x

If he wants the prenup then I suppose you have to go through the motions and see what happens. But.....

1. you choose the lawyer.
2. make sure your loss of earnings due to having children And going part time to allow him to continue full time.
3. make sure maintenance is agreed
4. if he won't move for 2-3 years to protect his investment in the house make sure you as a couple are saving a deposit for you in the event of a split, so you are not penalised for not being on the property ladder if you do split. (After children deposit could be for non resident parent)

Make sure it works for you as well as him. It's a horrible thing to do before marriage. But should be easier to be fair than after a divorce.

Family's *

Just as a separate point @HappyHattie, when prices are falling is exactly the right time to move, assuming you want to up size / spend more.

If you sell your place for £150 and buy a new place for £200 then the gap you need to plug is only £50k.

If you wait for prices to rise, I'll say double just to make the maths easy, you will sell for £300k and buy for £400k, therefore you need to plug a £100k gap. The absolute price only matters in a negative way if you're trying to sell for cash or downsize. Or unless you're worried long term that your investment won't be worth much because house prices will never recover from brexit

More relevant to your point, I think you need to get him to recompense you at least half of your savings before you can talk about pre nup, or at the very least get an agreement from him your savings amount will be protected (ie you'll get 7k plus x% compound interest out of house equity) in the case of a split.

I can see his viewpoint. I don't really agree with it, IMO pre nups are more relevant when you're talking one person with multiple millions vs another with near zero. However if he is a decent man in most other ways then I'd see how the prenup conversations pan out. The starting point you mentioned doesn't sound horribly unfair tbh, though you need clarity over what happens if the value of the house goes from £150k to £100k, also to £300k. Ie how much of the loss do you help absorb / how much of the gain do you get? Assuming joint money will pay for refurbishment etc it feels like you should profit from a gain, and I'm tempted to say he should absorb a loss himself as it'll be an investment gone bad. However this doesn't look fair on paper

Good luck with it all

Protect what each person brings into the marriage, subsequently especially if children arrive it must be totally joint. DH earns more than I ever could but no way could he actually do his job if he had custody of our DC so as far as we’re concerned we’re both earning that salary.

Another option would be to say that not marrying addresses all his financial concerns, so seems the best solution for now, but that having DC is off the table for at least a few years - you wish to get into a better personal financial position before DC, given that you have no equity or savings and his intention not to make changes to his working life that would put you at high risk of the “motherhood pay penalty”.

Given your young age, and early career stage, you probably do have time fertility wise if you decide to coast in the relationship.

I also think some counselling or marriage course before committing is a good idea as it doesn't seem like he's got a good idea of what marriage means vs what you think it means. Also LL83's advice above about what to include in the prenup looks really wise to me

You want him to support you for years on end so you can have kids and don't want to work FT. He wants to have kids but still live like he's single with her indoors propping him up. This has disaster written all over it.

Can you still have one but make it fair to both of you? He gets his 150k, you get your 7k, you don't put anything towards a mortgage until you both choose and buy a house together. And something built in for if you have kids - loss if earnings and loss of future earnings if you go part time, a lump sum if you are going to be the resident parent going forward etc (whatever would be a fair and decent split in a divorce settlement)

I think it's fairly easy if you don't have kids and work full time. If you have kids and have taken maternity leave and gone back part time then it's very tricky as this hasn't got a direct financial value. If he recognises this benefits the family and has a value and reflects this in a prenup and also recognises that any money you get after kids will go to them and you will need continued financial support to make sure their standard of living remains the same then would that be OK? You would need somewhere to live though so I'd say fine about the 150 but you're not paying towards the mortgage so if you split you will be able to afford to buy by yourself (unless the prenup gives you a large lump sum for a house)