DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

Start again, agree that you'd like to protect his initial home No. The plan is for OP to have children and give up work - so this would be really stupid.

He wants, as much as he is able, to make you give away the legal rights and protection that marriage will confer on you. Then he plans to have you in an absolutely vulnerable position. He's already started on this by having you spend your savings so now your safety net is gone. He also wants to dictate your practical life plans for the foreseeable future. Please do not get sucked any further into the sunk-costs fallacy. There is a lot of controlling behaviour here. Please use this as a prompt to step back from this relationship and think about why you would think this is okay for you. See a therapist. If you sleepwalk into this, you will be on here starting a thread in a few years time about being trapped in a marriage with a controlling H and having no way to leave.

I never saw the point in prenups.

I can see how they make sense for very wealthy people with complicated assets. For example I think Rupert Murdoch's prenup meant that Wendi Deng wouldn't get a stake in News Corp to protect his older children from a previous relationship.

For the average person, even the average high earner, it seems very strange to me.

He earns 3x your salary yet all your £7k savings have gone. It's you that will be going PT and losing more money. And HE wants a prenup? Sounds like a real keeper to me ...

He earns 3x your salary yet all your £7k savings have gone. It's you that will be going PT and losing more money. And HE wants a prenup? Sounds like a real keeper to me

Couldn't have said it better.

Can you become tennans in common on the house instead? That way his equity can be protected i.e. he'd own a bigger share of the house than you. That's what I've done with my new DH as I owned the house for several years before he lived in.

Definitely don't agree to him protecting pension etc! Especially if you'll be part time as you'd be sacrificing your career prospects to raise his kids.

I own another property and will be lookinh to do something similar to a pre nup before we get married.

I'm hapoy to share the benefit of the property etc whilst we are married, but if we divorce (no-one know what can happen in the future) why should he be entitled to half of it??

Don't marry him or have children until he is prepared to drop the pre-nup and set things up equally. My DH isn't quite as extreme (never asked for a pre nup) but we started out quite unequal financially. His suggestion on how we should "share" things were initially quite disadvantageous for me but I was young and stupid and went along with it. Luckily at some point I woke up and put my foot down and we sorted it out. 15 years later I am the higher earner, have inherited and am contributing substantially more than him. All shared. That's life and partnership for you. If we'd split we both and the DCs would just about be ok. Not great though. And anyway we want to stay married. But I am glad I sorted it and I look back at my younger self and shudder....

And the fact that your £7k savings have already gone, shows that he is putting himself first

Oh yes. Please reconsider marrying into this, OP.
.

There is no way I would reduce my financial independence or earning power in these circumstances OP.

If he wants you to have his children then he needs to be part of the team.

YANBU.

I wouldn’t be happy with that. Even the snazzy celeb pre-nups have asset sharing clauses after x years of marriage. The fact that he is considering future inheritance, pension etc just seems deeply unreasonable and makes me wonder why he is marrying. Your £7k (as a proportion of assets at the start) should at least be recognised as should provision for children, mat leave, loss of earnings potential.

I could understand protecting the £150k in the short term but after 30 years of marriage that would just seem petty.

Life is so unpredictable and you’d never be able to account for all scenarios. What if he got sick and you were supporting him financially? What if you had disabled children? What if you had an inheritance or lottery win? There are so many ways in which a decision now to split assets could be problematic in the future.

Also what will you do in terms of wills? Would you receive money in the even of his death or would that go elsewhere?

First off you are supposed to have independent representation not for him to be asking round for you.

Prenup is fine if you are getting an equal relationship.

1. you need your 7k to be unsealed up the same way his 150k
2. you needs a home to build together and named on the mortgage, otherwise you are robbed of gaining equity in property.

Tbh the more I think of it you would be married on paper only but worse than an unmarried partner named on mortgage.

Tbh the more I think of it you would be married on paper only but worse than an unmarried partner named on mortgage

I was just going to post similar @Jenny17

WTF does he think marriage means? That he gains while you lose?

Having been screwed over in a divorce, i would definitely try to protect my assets if I were ever to have another relationship. I don't think he's being unfair, the 150 is his. Going forward, things would presumably be shared. I'd get the 7k back though.

Kitty has hit the nail on the head, this is all a sign of controlling behaviour which will only get worse. You may think his reasons behind it is because of his parents (and that's his excuse) but either way it's set the tone.

He will probably continue to be mean with money, if nothing else, and that alone will grind you down. As another pp said I doubt pre-nups are really a thing here as such anyway.

Yes it's sensible on both sides to protect assets in a fair manner, or to be fair if things do go wrong later on, but he is already overly obsessed with his control over money, (that's all he seems to care about), including yours which is an even bigger concern.

Sorry you are being treated this way HappyHattie. I'm 100% in agreement with your concerns and feelings, and his house-our house etc. This is not the partnership I would want in a marriage. So glad you found it out now in some respects though before having any children with him but i must be so hurtful.

And the £7k? What's yours is ours/his but what's his is his?

Don't let him do this to you

Prenups do not exist in the UK. He could technically write one but They are not legally forceable. Problem solved

This just isn’t true, why do people feel so able to confidently give such bullshit ‘advice’ on subjects they don’t actually know about?

A prenup will be upheld by a judge if it is considered fair, and if both parties benefited from legal advice before signing.

OP you are doing absolutely the right thing by speaking to a solicitor. You don’t have to agree to this. But if you do, remember that it’s a two way process - you’re entitled to assert what you would want in the event of a split, and you can negotiate what that means with your DH.

I don’t have a prenup, and you don’t have to agree to have one. But consider - I once heard someone describe them as ‘an agreement you make while you love each other about how you will treat each other if one day you don’t’. In that sense, it could be a gift to your future selves saving you from bitter court battles. But that only works if there is genuine compromise and your DH is willing to listen to what you want. If he sees it as exclusively a means of protecting his assets, it’s not fair and you shouldn’t agree to it.

I can just about see why it may be considered fair to protect his £150k, but going forward from here you are disadvantaging yourself in other ways, going part time will massively affect your careeer, your earnings, pension and even employability. Whilst he had protected him pension from you, that’s not fair IMO.
Seriously weigh up if you can live with this attitude, and if you can, get your own clauses written into this to adequately make up these losses in the event of divorce.

Women who juggle demanding careers and have kids look miserable and you'd hate to live like that? Ffs.

And his split is fair, he retains what he had before the point of meeting, and everything after is split. Just because you don't want to be one of those "miserable" women and work full time with kids, doesn't change that.

Seriously though. "Miserable" how offensive.

Can you become tenants in common on the house instead?

You could also ask your solicitor about having a declaration of trust that protects the 150k only. You don't necessarily need a prenup to achieve what he is trying to do, if it really is only the 150k that is the only issue.

I don't think either of you are BU. You are quite right to feel that, if you are going to be the one earning less because of your future DC, you should not be disadvantaged. But, from his point of view, it does not seem fair that - if you split up after a year with no DC - you could potentially receive £75k. I suspect most of the posters protesting that he is being U haven't been in his position.

I think prenups only 'work' if both parties want it rather than one being forced to go along with it.

You have your doubts OP because he is making sure you gain nothing from this partnership and stand to lose. Pensions, investments, house equity will be gained during your marriage so to ring fence those means in the event of a divorce he doesn't care about any provision for you and what you will have contributed during the marriage. You see on MN frequent posts of people who feel they can't leave an awful marriage because they have no money to do so.

Find a good independent solicitor who specialises in this area if you do decide to proceed who will fight your corner to make sure provisions are put in place for all the eventualities that might happen.

Personally though I would run the other way and find someone who is on the same page as yourself even walking away £7k down would be worth it to me. And I don't say this lightly because had my DH gone along with the whole prenup thing from his DM I would have walked away.

If you've paid into his house, you have a claim on a share of it. I do understand him wanting to protect his deposit, but imo everything else should be shared, since your own pension and earning potential will be hit by working out and raising children.
If he wants a pre nup, make sure your solicitor goes through it with a fine tooth comb and sets out clear payments to cover your losses.
Not at all romantic and might make him think twice about getting married, in which case you should lodge a claim for your money back against his house if he won't repay you. Under no circumstances should you marry someone who won't give you the protection he is insisting upon for himself.

Well yes I suppose it's fair enough to protect his 150k, but it's not just that. All this talk of pensions etc, wanting everything all buttoned up now. Even the solicitor thinks it's complicated!

I think there’s quite a bit of hysteria on here. It seems that all he is asking is to protect the assets he has before the marriage (ie the 150k) in the event of divorce. That seems to me to be entirely reasonable. During the marriage you will have “use” of that sum as equity in the house. I’m not sure I see your objection. Fair enough if you are giving up work to look after kids for him to support you while doing that, but why should you get assets he has built up now which have nothing to do with you?

I think he is being sensible. Anyone in that situation (big disparity of assets entering into a marriage) would be well advised to do so.

I'd want my son or daughter to protect an asset that large so would advise them not to marry or to ensure they had a good pre nup. If their partner wasn't happy then they were marrying them for the wrong reasons anyway.

Given you want to get married, drop your hours and have him carry the bulk of the financial burden to suit your life plan it's not surprising he wants to protect himself. I would if the situation was reversed,

zsazsajuju the OP has said it's escalating to include future earnings, pensions, inheritence etc. It's not just his £150k.

I don't think anyone would say he is unreasonable to protect that on its own.