DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

You want to get married so you can go part time at work and live off his wages. Which is fine if he wants that, but does he? Seems to me like he’s got his reservations.

Also you do realize that you don’t need to have the same surname if you’re married? It’s 2019 after all!

What is the 75\25% split based on?
Personally I think it represents what he thinks is the value of your contribution to the marriage.
Do not underestimate how much hard work raising children is. Also after quite a few years out of the workplace and living in an area with not as many employment opportunities as in London you're not going to be able to just walk into a decent full time job. Discrimination against mothers in the workplace is real. Your skills will be out of date, you'll be the one expected to take sick days off for your children, juggle school drop offs and pickups/ activities etc.
Whilst he carries on concentrating on his career with the 'wifework' taken care of and then you get just 25% !
As to him paying 75% of the bills until the children turn 18. How can you know in advance if this is fair? What if you have zero earnings say because a child is ill or has problems which mean you can't work at all.

Secondly has he considered what would happen if he couldn't work anymore and you had to support the family by going back to work? The 75% bill paying wouldn't benefit him either in this scenario.

I wouldn't sign anything.

I always hated the idea of pre nups but I think for second, third marriages whereas children are involved, houses ect they are a good idea.

There is simply no way however I would have started off ie husband no 1 within 1⃣!!

No way not when your building a life and family together. What price can you put on your the sacrifice the usually the woman makes to have children, bring them up esp in the early days!

What if you get sick and need to draw equity from the the house! Would he or leave his wealth in tact ie what if your last punt was life saving treatment in the the States... Sorry love I need my house etc.

So bringing up the children while still contributing financially is 25% of the marriage.

He has already put a figure on your 'contribution' to the marriage.

Surely a pre nup, having no real legal status - I'm assuming you're in the UK - cannot override the law of the land regarding the split of property?

Personally, I'd be very wary of marrying someone who wanted to tie me up with something of this sort.

I can appreciate someone who is incredibly rich and perhaps on a third or forth marriage going down that route, but you're both still young and just starting out and frankly having £150 of equity in his house - if I've understood that correctly - is very far from having wealth of any kind.

Marriage should be a partnership. So what if he earns more than you at the moment.

Agree with pp, I wouldn't be signing anything either. And if someone didn't want to marry me unless I did, I think I'd seriously be thinking of walking away.

Umm, no. It should be a 50/50 split as you are equal partners! WTF. Why not a graduating scale? Ie marriage for under 5 years he gets his 142 k back 5-10 he gets 71 k back 10-15 he gets 50 k back over 15 he gets nothing and everything is split 50/50. I took off your 7 k savings that has been frittered away😁

Your effort in raising your joint children and loss in income will be way more then his investment at this point.

I will be honest, when and if I enter a serious relationship where I end up living with someone I will absolutely enter a pre-nup. I own my own home with significant equity. I am disable and am living on pension and disability only and will never work again. I can not afford to lose my assets, pension or any other money’s. I will absolutely protect them for both my children and myself. I am Canadian and they are legal here.

He is being petty about some things and even here if you put more money into things ie pre-marriage and pre-living together a deposit down or owning the home that is taken into consideration. Outside of that, it should absolutely be 50/50.

I earned significantly more then my exh and upon divorce he was bitter. Even retired on disability I earn more. He is still bitter. I am the residential parent and he has to pay child support. He doesn’t see why he should support his own children as I earn more🤬😳

Read your update OP, what about childcare? It's a huge expense for most families and doesn't stop because they go to school (according to my friends it gets more difficult) so how will that be factored in for your 2-3 children? How much would your PT wage allow you to save?

I'm sure you have but I'd clarify about the "small children" you mentioned. If you split when the youngest is over school age does that mean you could still stay in the house or would you need to find somewhere else. I've be very concerned if it was the latter.

Agree with sitting - you are not going to be able to earn to your full potential whilst not living in London and whilst doing the childcare. If you are going to work PT on this deal then you need to be able to keep 75% of your earnings into a side personal savings account so you have something towards buying your own house should you need it. At least. Why is he so adamant on keeping this part of his home to himself? I went tenants in common on a house with my boyfriend 75% v 25% because I'd put more in. Since marriage we have been joint tenants.

Please don't count on future inheritance in your 50s and 60s - care costs could see that ALL completely disappear. The country is in a social care crisis that no party seems willing to take on.

And on that note - you need to make sure you are adequately protected for your own care costs! If you split and are left with not very much, you get very little choice about where and how you will be cared for.

If you left him and he were feeling vindictive he could just refuse to sell the house.
75% of the costs- is that for basics or truly everything like an insured car when they turn 17? He could legally get the kids to live with him 50% of the time and reduce his child maintenance dramatically.

If you are going to be SAHM then you need him to pay into a pension for you.

If you live in your current home for a long time 75/25 could be a lot more than 150k. You are sticking your fingers in your ears. He’s preventing you from getting a house and your own equity. What would the 25% get you today? Getting something like a buy to let property would solve this.

@HappyHattie I don't understand the reason for the 75/25 split.

He is trying to treat this as a "contributions" case which, if there isn't enough money in the pot on divorce, may not be appropriate. If the £150k is the major asset it's far more likely to be a needs case where his contribution of £150k would be far less relevant.

If you get divorced a few years down the line and you have given up work to care for the children, and therefore have a reduced income capacity and pension, a judge would (in all likelihood) award you far more than 25% of the net sale proceeds of the house. He would probably give you more than 50% to compensate for the fact that the children live with you, you have a lower earning capacity and lower pension.

So why would you agree to less than that in a pre-nup?

Please make sure you seek independent advice (ie totally separately from your husband re this). If you don't the pre-nup won't be upheld anyway.

Where's the 7k? Why haven't you asked for it back?

You say you have taken legal advice.

I went to see a solicitor yesterday as I wanted advice on gifting my share of a property. The solicitor was insistent on emphasising that I was his client and that he had to ensure he was acting in my best interests in the advice he gave me.

Did you see a solicitor jointly with your partner? I ask this because it does not sound as though that person is acting as though you are actually their client, and spelling out your best interests.

Pre nips do stand in court, I had one years and years ago with ex husband who then we left 20 years later, I got less due to pre nup which was fair. Now we married and he refused to sign a pre nup, now he taking me for ALOT!

mummyoflittledragon is so right - when we went joint tentants on the house once we got married (switching from 75 v25 in my favour) it was just the natural thing to do. But thinking about it, how unfair if I'd insisted on keeping that and said he would need to be the one to live in the area that benefited MY earnings so we needed to stay in the house that largely belonged to ME. And we actually did have a conversation about moving to a location where I would be able to earn a lot and he wouldn't and renting out that house. In the end we decided we could both earn well in London but moving elsewhere would make things very difficult for him so we stuck with what worked for both of us.

You are giving up quite a lot at 27. If you want to go ahead on this basis you have to have your own side plans/savings going on that are actually meaningful, not just a few thousand, which will get you nowhere in terms of buying a home.

I don't think you should do that. He is out of order thinking you can cut back on everything for yourself to raise children & then if anything did go wrong you get left with nothing. It's totally unreasonable.

I don’t like the sound of him op. I would find a better husband who has your back and you his

OP you should REJECT his 25:75,
because it clearly shows how inferior he considers your contribution to your proposed partnership

• and if you split in middle age, say after 20 years SAHM with 2-3 kids, your life could be struglling in poverty until you die

Suggest instead:

The prenup should preserve his 143k (150 - your 7k)
and any inheritance either of you receive, but NOT any profits gained from investing it

then a sliding scale of division of ALL assets, including pension so important:

Up to 2 years: you just get back your 7k
After 10 years: 50:50
2-10 years: sliding scale

OP, please be careful.

A friend of a friend had a prenup. They were together 11 years. She agreed to not take anything from him including his house. He then encouraged her to give up work to look after his house and stables. They planned for her to look after any children. They never had children and he dumped her for a younger woman. She is now middle aged, no house, no job, too late for kids whilst he is living the high life.

If you do agree to a prenup everything after marriage needs to be split 50/50 including pensions as you will not be putting into a pension while being a SAHM. You need to protect yourself OP in both the situation of having kids and not having kids.

I don’t think you can risk being a sahm. You need to keep your career going in this scenario or you could be vulnerable in middle age as you wouldn’t have the protection of marriage that your peers will have.

Well OP that’s escalated and got complex.

Personally I’d agree to have the £150k ringfenced (and I don’t think you need to go down a prenup route for this). I don’t know about the £7k I’m not sure if you’ve been sharing money equally and he earns a lot more than you do how that compares and you already have a joint savings pot that’s more than double that amount (I’m not sure if you actually said that or a PP).

I’d do it as simply as possibly legally. Ideally without going down a prenup route which seems overly complicated and expensive, particularly if all he wants his pre marriage equity protected. I know plenty of women who do this.

Inheritances you can treat separately as and when they happen.

This thread is a real shame. You don’t value your contribution to this relationship and neither does your partner by the sound of it. He’s ‘willing’ to give you 25% and you’re actually grateful. Is that what you’re worth? His partner for life / the mother of his children/ the woman he wants to marry and spend the rest of his life with........ 25% 😔

This is all becoming ridiculous.

No matter how he splits it, when your children are old enough to leave home, you will be homeless. The other option is for you to buy a house to let out now - obviously you can't do that on your own, especially when you go part-time.

Go to London. Tell him you can't afford to be with him and that you're going to start again with someone in the same position as you.

Just like another poster said - you can't afford to be with him. You've already spent £7000 trying to jeep up.