AIBU to be angry that this is still happening!

[CosmicCanary]

Bristol News

I know this is not the only girl this has happened to. I know there will be many many girls who have suffered the same humiliation in school just today.

I was one of them many years ago.
So many times i bled through my pad in lesson but I knew asking to go to the toilet in would be met with a NO so i didn't bother. It was a humiliation in its self for the whole class to know you needed the loo. Such a public audience for an other wise private act.

I have already told my DDs should they need the toilet they must ask but if refused walk out of lesson if they absolutely cannot wait and I will deal with school.
They will not suffer the humiliation and shame of leaving blood on a school chair as I did.

@Isthisit01

A normal period doesn't gush out onto your seat a d soak you withing seconds of coming on.

Erm, mine do. Almost every single time. I assume you are some kind of period expert?!

Which in turn Ofsted commented positively about with regards to wellbeing.

Now imagine Ofsted inspecting the school that a PP describes - students banging on doors and windows as they go down the corridor, a boy ripping the sinks off the wall, a couple having sex in the toilets - do you think Ofsted would say 'oh good, you've listened to the pupils'? In schools without disruptive pupils I dare say there is no problem. In other schools it's a huge problem.

I guess the answer is to allow schools to become stricter with behaviour management and exclude where necessary. Then students who know how to behave will be allowed to access the toilet.

And then we can respond to all the threads here about how unfair it was that my Sarah or Johnny has been given detention/put in isolation/excluded.

Schools cannot win. Unfortunately when you are dealing with large groups blanket rules get applied. This is the same everywhere. Whatever the rule, it may sometimes impact unfairly on someone.

And what I really don't understand is how it is less embarrassing to walk out of a classroom, against the teacher's instruction and then deal with the ramifications of that action than it is for a parent to explain to school and ask for a toilet pass?

At the end of the day it is the teacher that is in control and is the one who says yes or no at the point when the child makes the request.

Did you not read that I said toilets are often locked during lesson time?Or are you ignoring that because it doesn't fit in with your vitriol against teachers?

We used to let students go to the bathroom, but after a few incidents and the introduction of new policies, it’s now considered a safeguarding risk. Not fair on those in genuine need but necessary.

Well I suppose walking out looks kind of cool and defiant whereas a pass that shows your parents and teachers have had a conversation about your toileting is potentially very embarrassing.

It's down to the school to deal with disruptive students.
If there are no ramifications for behaviour, of course, they will continue. You are making assumptions that the school was one with only well-behaved students. It wasn't. Vandals where dealt with appropriately. Police involvement when needed. Exclusions when needed, including permanent ones. Zero tolerance with bullying. Disruptive pupils removed from the class so that others education wasn't disrupted. SS and others involved when required.
Ht and governors were very clear from applying that certain behaviour would not be tolerated.
Other schools also operate in this way such as the one my youngest goes to.

In schools without disruptive pupils I dare say there is no problem. In other schools it's a huge problem.

I think the distinction you are looking for is between well run and poorly run schools.

Surely all schools have potentially disruptive pupils. Pushing boundaries is normal behaviour. The difference is in how schools deal with it

I think the distinction you are looking for is between well run and poorly run schools

The words of someone with no clue. Tell me how a school in the inner city where drugs are a way of life and stabbings a regular occurrence can be compared to cosy middle class school in a middle class suburb.

Or are you ignoring that because it doesn't fit in with your vitriol against teachers?

Suggestions that teachers probably have more power and control in the relationship with their students isn’t vitriolic. It’s ridiculous to try to characterise any questioning or criticism of certain behaviours or actions by some teachers as ‘vitriol against teachers’.

Frankly, it undermines your position as you’re coming across like any suggestion that a teacher might be wrong would be dumped in that category unquestioningly.

Pushing boundaries is normal behaviour. The difference is in how schools deal with it

Yes of course. The problem is that now schools are discouraged from excluding pupils - and of course for certain students exclusion is the absolute absolute last resort and can only been used once absolutely everything else has been tried. Potentially that is quite some time that a school has to manage a disruptive pupil.

It is hard. I just think that the solution is for the parent to advocate on behalf of the student and communicate with the school. For the life of me I can't see how encouraging the student to defy the teacher, draw attention to themselves in front of the class and then have to explain themselves to a member of staff about why they walked out of class is a better option than a calm adult conversation with school and then a toilet pass to be shown discreetly when needed.

It feels like the OP is more interested in encouraging her daughter to challenge authority rather than work out a mature solution with school on behalf of her child.

Schools having to somehow manage pupils who have issues that go way beyond what an ordinary bog standard school can deal with is a big problem. Putting all the kids under a draconian regime still doesn't seem right though.

Schools aren't discouraged from excluding students though. Government policy with regards to exclusion recommends this.

Good discipline in schools is essential to ensure that all pupils can benefit from the opportunities provided by education. The Government supports head teachers in using exclusion as a sanction where it is warranted. However, permanent exclusion should only be used as a last resort, in response to a serious breach or persistent breaches of the school's behaviour policy; and where allowing the pupil to remain in school would seriously harm the education or welfare of the pupil or
others in the school.

It's all well and good to say parents should work with the school to ensure toilet passes are given. This doesn't always happen hence I moved my dd's school to one that gave a shit about her health. I spoke to the school and I also provided medical evidence to back up her need to go for menstrual and uti reasons. She was still denied access and faced a lot of detentions because she walked out of class to go to the toilet.
The next school didn't give a fuck if she had to go every lesson for a week or so. They understood that body functions are different. Obviously is she was destructive, doing drugs, bullying or vandalising the school etc she would have rightfully faced discipline for this.

However, permanent exclusion should only be used as a last resort, in response to a serious breach or persistent breaches of the school's behaviour policy; and where allowing the pupil to remain in school would seriously harm the education or welfare of the pupil or
others in the school.

And there in lies the rub.

Been there, done that. Faced the wrath of the LA and local headteachers who are expected to accept excluded students or offer managed moves etc. Of course it is possible to exclude but it isn't deemed acceptable and it is something that Ofsted scrutinise. Headteachers are under pressure to try not to exclude - which on the one hand is a good thing, no one wants a situation where students are routinely excluded but on the other hand it means that schools do have to find ways of managing this behaviour.

Schools are constantly trying to balance the needs of all of their pupils. Unfortunately often times these needs conflict and it isn't simple to get the balance right.

Obviously if a parent tries to reach a solution with the school and the school still won't accommodate the child then something has to be done. But surely the starting point is to talk to the school first rather than encouraging the child to defy a member of staff?

I'm not suggesting that periods need medical treatment or special treatment at school. I am suggesting that abnormal bleeding (ie changing a pad once or twice per hour) is indeed a medical problem that warrants medical attention

No Dr will believe that an 11 year old girl who has terrible bleeding and pains and random periods needs medical attention. Somewhere there is a thread about being believed by your Dr. The sheer amount of women with pcos for 10/15/20 years and longer, but you think a Dr will do something for an 11 year old. Absolutely no chance. And as for putting them on the pill as standard that should not be an option (and I was put on the pill at 13)

but you think a Dr will do something for an 11 year old. Absolutely no chance.

Sorry but I know of drs that have treated 11 yr olds.

Sorry but I know of drs that have treated 11 yr olds

A bit like good and bad schools eh? Good and bad Drs.

However a Dr usually prescribes the wait and see method for periods. Common sense for the first year or so, not common sense after that.

Periods that heavy are not only going to mean a girl needs to go to the toilet often - that is going to impact on her physical health and disrupt her schooling

But taking time off Instead because of the humiliation or bullying won't?

we had to learn to live in the real world after all you can’t run to the loo whenever you want at work
Yeah actually I can, my boss doesn't care if I went 20 times an hour. So long as my work is done. I would not take a job currently (because menopause is shit) without unlimited access to the loo.
I don't much catch buses now, but bus drivers have known places to use the loo on any route. So if the bus stops, driver gets off ostensibly to buy a paper, they can actually be using the loo.

cosy middle class school in a middle class suburb.

Both my teenagers attended a well-run secondary school in an extremely deprived area.

My periods were damn heavy and if I'd started five minutes into a lesson I knew that waiting an hour would get me into an awful mess. Luckily it never happened as I wore a towel when I was due 'just in case' but it really was all down to luck.

However, at one of my first jobs I needed the loo as I felt that my towel was about to leak. It was five minutes before I was due for my tea break so I asked my male boss if I could go early. His answer was no, surely I could wait five minutes? I was too shy to explain why and not rebellious enough to just walk off. Those five minutes were hellishly worrying. I wasn't been brave enough to say 'my periods are very heavy and I'm going, you can't stop me, sack me if you like.' I cannot imagine his response to that.

Oh God, the menopause is wonderful.

One school I did supply in had metal detectors airport style in the main doors to detect knives (and once a gun) and a police support officer on the grounds most of the time. Also panic buttons under teacher desks. In England.
Its a different world in some schools.

I’m interested in the “I’d never send my child to a school like that” comments. There’s not always another option! I went to a school that had loads of toilets under every block of classrooms, but they were all locked, all of the time, except the ones closest to the office. To go to the toilets during lessons, you had to sign in at the office. At break times you had to queue outside to be given a few sheets of toilet paper, as none was left in the toilets. This was due to fires being started in the toilets, fighting, bullying, drug use, smoking etc. But still there was no blanket rule that no child could ever leave a lesson to go to the toilet! Teachers used their discretion and we all survived! Although, I do feel for the teachers who have to enforce difficult rules, it’s a tough one!

break times you had to queue outside to be given a few sheets of toilet paper

Why wouldn't you just bring your own in your school bag.

Times really have changed. When I was at school we were allowed to go to the toilet if we needed to, just asked, "Please may I be excused". Why is going to the toilet a safeguarding issue? Seems weird - and I've never heard of having to queue up to be handed a bit of toilet paper. There was toilet paper in each toilet unless one had run out, in which case you'd go in the next cubicle.