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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think this is creepy as fuck?

140 replies

timetostepup · 12/01/2019 12:30

This is outside a talk by a Canadian Feminist.

A man with a megaphone, getting a crowd of women and men to chant, over and over, "transwomen are women! Sex work is work!"

Why only transwomen, not transmen?

What has prostitution got to do with gender identity - what's the link?

I can't see one - other than both are about people born men being able to do what they want, and fuck what women want, is that it?

This really gives me the chills, looks like something you might see in the Handmaid's Tale.

twitter.com/Tarankparmar/status/1083584168280424448

OP posts:
Jaxhog · 12/01/2019 14:25

I'm very tempted to get a megaphone myself, go into the streets and see if I can get people to chant Elephants are fish! Horses are reptiles! Lizards are cheetahs! Poor people are better off than Billionaires! Nigel Farage is a fine example of a man!

Excellent idea! I'd do it.

Seriously though, this is the consequence of free speech. However much some transwomen activists would like to stop women from speaking out.

KitsandCaboodles · 12/01/2019 14:27

Dissenting voices are very welcome but the majority of them take off and run as soon as they are challenged.

And why can't people who agree meet and have discussions? Their voices are as valid as anyone. People who believe in God and that Christ is the son of God gather in churches every Sunday and on other occasions to talk about God and worship him. Perhaps I should be demanding that they fill at least half of their pews with ardent Atheists as there's clearly no point in like minded people meeting and discussing topics together. Likewise cycling clubs. I think that they should fill their ranks with people who hate cyclists and who wouldn't dream of getting on a bike.

MildewMoss · 12/01/2019 14:28

MN clickbait!

Carrotss · 12/01/2019 14:30

And why can't people who agree meet and have discussions?

Yeah sorry, I thought your comment was referring to me saying "might as well close this thread" not to the meeting itself, lol.

KitsandCaboodles · 12/01/2019 14:31

I'm referring to women on forums and in the streets. It seems that everyone has a right to be heard but us.

Carrotss · 12/01/2019 14:32

Well, the meetings still go ahead and the threads still get made. People are not really being denied their rights in that respect are they?

KitsandCaboodles · 12/01/2019 14:33

If women dare to gather and discuss issues that affect them then people try to disrupt and shut down the meeting, now we aren't even supposed to talk on MN.

BertrandRussell · 12/01/2019 14:34

“The whole discussion is just so repetitive when you're all agreeing with each other.”

I agree. So let’s, to coin a phrase, “have a heated debate”. What’s the reasoning that has led you to believe that trans women are women? What do you think should happen about women’s sport? That’ll do for starters!

Pachyderm1 · 12/01/2019 14:34

I don’t think it’s fair for you to hone in on this person only talking about transwomen when the reason for that is that anti-trans feminists only care about transwomen. You only have to look at Mumsnet for an example of the fact that the majority act like trans men don’t exist.

What has prostitution got to do with gender identity - what's the link?

There are several links. One is that there is an enormous cross over between feminists who are anti trans and feminists who are anti sex workers. Very few are in support of one group but not the other.

Another link is that many trans women work as sex workers, so their rights are eroded on both fronts.

Womantheonlykind · 12/01/2019 14:34

Alternatively

Morally I think that WOMEN have had an extremely tough time, both from the medical profession and social prejudice, and, on compassionate grounds, we should respect their choices.

KitsandCaboodles · 12/01/2019 14:36

The meetings do not always go ahead. Many have been cancelled or disrupted by men and this disruption is often accompanied by very threatening behaviour.

And you said that the thread might as well be closed down? Why? Because the women are getting above their stations again and having opinions?

Carrotss · 12/01/2019 14:37

I agree. So let’s, to coin a phrase, “have a heated debate”. What’s the reasoning that has led you to believe that trans women are women? What do you think should happen about women’s sport? That’ll do for starters!

Who are you asking? That's my point! The one person who said that has left the thread. There's nobody here to ask!

AngryAttackKittens · 12/01/2019 14:37

It feels emblematic of a whole way of seeing the world, this insistence that we shouldn't be able to tell things that in fact everyone can tell at a glance in the vast majority of cases. I'm just not sure how the people making those demands think they can ever possibly be enforced. How do you propose to control the thoughts in other people's heads, or render them unable to recognize what their own perceptions are telling them?

BertrandRussell · 12/01/2019 14:38

“One is that there is an enormous cross over between feminists who are anti trans and feminists who are anti sex workers. Very few are in support of one group but not the other.”
What makes you think feminists are either anti trans or anti sex worker? I am neither. I am most definitely anti pimp, anti punter and anti exploitative sex industry. How anyone, apart from pimps, punters and the sex industry can read that as being anti sex worker completely baffles me.

BertrandRussell · 12/01/2019 14:39

“Who are you asking? That's my point! The one person who said that has left the thread. There's nobody here to ask!”
Apologies-I thought you were saying that.

Carrotss · 12/01/2019 14:40

And you said that the thread might as well be closed down? Why? Because the women are getting above their stations again and having opinions?

No, just because it's repetitive and boring and aimless. If everybody here agrees that transwomen can never BIOLOGICALLY be women, and that self ID is bad and that womens spaces are under threat and that it is wrong for women to be harrassed by transactivists... then what more is there to say in this thread that has not been said before in 1,000 other threads.

Look, I'm not saying you lot can't or shouldn't stay and have the same discussion all over again, people can spend their weekends however they want, I was just making a throwaway comment about what a waste of time it is. I guess I should really have known how such a comment would be construed though. My bad

sackrifice · 12/01/2019 14:41

Who are you asking? That's my point! The one person who said that has left the thread. There's nobody here to ask!

So in their absence you are closing it down on our behalf?

It is currently trending, so people are reading it, are you wanting them to stop reading too?

Perhaps one of the people reading can come on and explain this all to us, so that we understand how this transformation actually occurs?

sackrifice · 12/01/2019 14:42

No, just because it's repetitive and boring and aimless.

If it is so boring why is it top of the trending list?

PregnantSea · 12/01/2019 14:42

I thought that most branches of feminism do not believe that transwomen are women and don't want them to be recognised as such? Something about invading women's spaces and experiences?

This is just my experience from vocal people I've met. I suppose there are many different branches of feminism who will have different views. I tend not to get into feminist debates if I can help it because they usually end in rows so I'm probably not seeing a balanced picture.

Juells · 12/01/2019 14:43

when the reason for that is that anti-trans feminists only care about transwomen.

Possibly because women don't feel threatened by transmen.

KitsandCaboodles · 12/01/2019 14:43

The majority of TRAs only care about transwomen from what I can see. It's all about the menz as usual. I do care about transmen but they are more victim than villain from what I can see in this scenario. The vast majority of threats, intimidation and take over attempt are from transwomen so I am more concerned about the impact of male TRAs

My friend is a transman. He is going to be royally fucked over with men being allowed en masse into bathrooms and women's spaces. He doesn't feel safe in men's rooms because of the threat from men. He's clearly female in spite of undergoing some hormonal treatment and not quite five foot. He uses the women's toilets because he feels safe there, but now he's going to be forced out of there too if this pattern of prioritising men continues, along with all of the other women who don't feel safe or feel that their dignity is compromised in mixed sex toilets.

OdeToDiazepam · 12/01/2019 14:44

Betrand what rights are trans people currently denied??

None at all as long as they have genuine dysphoria and have undergone he necessary steps to get a Grc

As for sport, you're happy for women's sport to be totally eroded then, just so trans women can feel validated

Carrotss · 12/01/2019 14:44

So in their absence you are closing it down on our behalf?

No, I do not work for MN.

Pachyderm1 · 12/01/2019 14:45

What makes you think feminists are either anti trans or anti sex worker? I am neither. I am most definitely anti pimp, anti punter and anti exploitative sex industry. How anyone, apart from pimps, punters and the sex industry can read that as being anti sex worker completely baffles me.

Sorry if my post wasn’t clear. I meant that the crossover between feminists who are anti trans and feminists who are anti sex work is huge, not that all feminists are anti sex work. I am a pro sex work feminist myself.

KitsandCaboodles · 12/01/2019 14:45

Yes it's amazing how 'Might as well shut down the thread' could ever be misconstrued as 'Stop talking about this, Women'.