to think this is creepy as fuck?

[timetostepup]

This is outside a talk by a Canadian Feminist.

A man with a megaphone, getting a crowd of women and men to chant, over and over, "transwomen are women! Sex work is work!"

Why only transwomen, not transmen?

What has prostitution got to do with gender identity - what's the link?

I can't see one - other than both are about people born men being able to do what they want, and fuck what women want, is that it?

This really gives me the chills, looks like something you might see in the Handmaid's Tale.

twitter.com/Tarankparmar/status/1083584168280424448

Booboo, are you up to date with recent developments? There is a recent wave of a huge number of aggressive "trnas rights activists" the vast majority MTF, who wish to become female and be able to enter women's spaces and erode sex segregation without changing their bodies, even saying that women can have penises and that's fine.

That's the tip of the iceberg, fetishists, child exploitation, it's all happening under the term "trans".

These are an aggressive group of people pushing to silence women and reduce us to feminine "feelings" as a way to erode our rights to safety.

There has already been proof and evidence that predators are using this recent movement to target vulnerable women and children, in prisons, in hospitals and in schools.

Far too much to try and condense into a comment, but worth looking into and reading up about on the feminism board.

Non-issue? Have you heard of Karen White? Also not meant to happen.

The existence of people who were born with one leg or even three or more in the occasional case is not proof that humans are not a bipedal species. Inter-sex people who still are of one sex of the other exist because of errors in their chromosomes, not because humans are not a binary species.

If determining sex is apparently so difficult how is it that humans have managed to breed successfully as a species for so long? Why is it that humans can tell someone's sex at a glance? There are of course individuals who appear more androgynous, but most people are easily picked out as obviously one or the other. It really isn't that complicated.

As for transwomen having a hard time. I'd say that overall women as a class have had and continue to have a much harder time of it than transpeople.

I absolutely agree though that people should express themselves as they wish regardless of sex but that does not mean that I have to risk my own safety and dignity and sacrifice my hard earned spaces and those of other women to facilitate them.

I don’t ask people to show me their genitals, DNA information, internal scans or endocrinological reports.

Nobody does, yet most people can magically recognise whether someone is male or female. Mystifying, really.

sackrifice I am not suggesting that people change their biology at will but that our biological make up as a species may be more complex than assumed by the binary categorisation. How would you identify true gonadal intersex people who have both ovarian and testicular tissue? Are they men or women?

I also don’t like cultural assumptions about sex. We should not be able to tell at a glance someone’s sex nor should we be so concerned with being able to tell someone’s sex at a glance. All clothes, all toys, all books, all jobs are for all people. We should not assume that the person with short hair, wearing a dark blue dinosaur t-shirt is a boy, it does a disservice to both boys and girls.

I am not suggesting that people change their biology at will but that our biological make up as a species may be more complex than assumed by the binary categorisation. How would you identify true gonadal intersex people who have both ovarian and testicular tissue? Are they men or women?

You are making the claim that you think trans women are women.

So you need to substantiate it.

So you don't think that men can change their gametes, but yet you think they are women.

Women are the types of human that produce the opposite gamete to men.

So what is your reasoning to say that you think trans women are women? What changes and at what point has there been enough change for you to make this assertion?

booboo

Intersex people have publicly stated that it isn't right to use them as an argument for transgenderism. For a start they are two entirely seperate things, and the struggles of intersex people (vanishingly rare btw) should not be appropriated for a group of people which no longer just refers to those with gender dysphoria.

Look up the definition of transgender now. You can wear a dress one day a week and call yourself phillipa with some lipstick, that's enough to be a transwomen "a woman according to some" and win a women's award. You can get a sexual thrill out of some tights and picking used tampons out of a sanitary bin for sexual excitement and be covered by the trans umbrella now (a woman? according to some)

We should not be able to tell at a glance someone’s sex nor should we be so concerned with being able to tell someone’s sex at a glance. All clothes, all toys, all books, all jobs are for all people. We should not assume that the person with short hair, wearing a dark blue dinosaur t-shirt is a boy, it does a disservice to both boys and girls.

Dogs can tell someone's sex, children can tell someone's sex. It's part of human evolution to determine someone's sex.

The only people saying that someone with short hair, wearing a dark blue dinosaur t-shirt is a boy is those that buy into the sex stereotypes that feminists have been trying to break down for years.

Yes I am very aware of the recent debates over self-ID. I think people from both sides of the debate have behaved appallingly, I strongly disagree with physical violence or threats of violence against others, and equally disagree with attempts to silence academics, speakers, protesters or journalists from EITHER side of the debate.

As for the issue, I think that the practical risks are grossly exaggerated and the law is poorly understood.

As for the op

It demonstrates a very shocking and sad fact that nowadays, women simply wanting to meet and discuss WOMEN'S rights and safety, are targeted by aggressive groups that do all they can to prevent and silence these talks.

It demonstrates a very shocking and sad fact that nowadays, women simply wanting to meet and discuss WOMEN'S rights and safety, are targeted by aggressive groups that do all they can to prevent and silence these talks

One person with a megaphone demonstrates aggressive groups doing all they can to prevent and silence talks?

And as for gender, trans people (not all) are the ones being regressive, They wish to essentially play on gender stereotypes and reduce women to the clothes and makeup we wear.

I think people from both sides of the debate have behaved appallingly, I strongly disagree with physical violence or threats of violence against others, and equally disagree with attempts to silence academics, speakers, protesters or journalists from EITHER side of the debate.

Who [on the side of biology] has behaved badly?

Have feminists been trying to shut down TRA meetings, issued bomb threats, barracked them in corridors, stopped them from meeting, called hundreds of times the venues to shut them down? Or is this from one side only.

What is your angle here?

One intersex group has made one public statement on their views on trans people, they do not represent all intersex people and even if they did stating that you do not wish your condition to be referred to in an rational argument doesn’t mean your condition becomes irrelevant to that argument.

Self-ID does not work that way legally. It is a binding legal commitment and subject to the usual legal penalties in cases of misuse or fraud,

Anyway, this is not my thread, thank you OP for being kind enough to let this discussion continue but I don’t think I should take up more space

I don’t think I should take up more space

A shame you can't just tell us why you think trans women are women. Almost as if you don't actually have an answer to this.

I had such high hopes.

Carrots, there was an interesting channel 4 documentary you might find enlightening. Trans - Time to talk

A women's rights meeting was targeted by TRAs in balaclavas. First they blocked entry to the speakers, behaving aggressively and barricading the stairway. They later forced entry and had to be removed by the police.

Women who have spoken up about concerns have had death threats, been doxxed, had their careers threatened. There's so much that has gone on, the evidence is there, video footage etc, Open your eyes.

Why shouldn't we be able to tell someone's sex? That's going to make finding a partner that meets people's sexuality rather difficult. I don't mean that people should dress according to what society has decided is appropriate but that there are generally some very obvious differences even if they're dressed identically.

My neighbour had a construction crew working on his extension recently. All were dressed identically and had relatively short hair, but as I was idly watching them, I soon realised that one was a woman even though she was quite some distance away and had her back turned to me. It was that clear.

Belief systems generally are.

I don't believe there is a link between chromosone abnormalities and transvestites no.

A women's rights meeting was targeted by TRAs in balaclavas. First they blocked entry to the speakers, behaving aggressively and barricading the stairway. They later forced entry and had to be removed by the police

Ok. But my point was that this thread is only about a person with a megaphone shouting slogans. Which does not demonstrate "aggressive groups doing all they can to prevent and silence talks". You said this OP demonstrates that. It doesn't really.

No I wasn't specifically talking about refuges I was talking about all sex segregated spaces or services, changing rooms, prisons etc. Women many of whom have been abused are saying they are not comfortable with people with penis in these spaces. You said we should respect transwomens identity choices, so why do you not respect the feelings of women who know that people with penis may harm them. You are prioritising transwomen feelings over women's feelings. You are not treating transwomen as women or you would ignore their feelings altogether.. You are treating those two groups differently. I wonder why that is.

If biologically sex attribution is so complex why is it attributed within seconds after birth ? I do see that you're suggesting there could be some growing confusion as a child develops. But with the exception of very rare medical conditions, it seems to me that most gender confusion is attributable to aspects of personality/societal influence/familial dysfunction/ wide ranging mental health issues.

Just because you "feel" something doesn't make it so. I would change the claim to trans women feel like or identify with biological women. I'm a biological woman, so if you feel like you think I feel, or identify with me living my life as a biological woman, that's something I can start to understand.

Let's say a man transitions at age 50. No periods, no reproduction, no menopause, none of the shared experiences that a biological woman experiences throughout her life. So there he is, standing next to me, with a similar looking body and asking me to call him her, because he feels/believes himself to be a woman. What if I don't believe/feel that he is a woman. Does his belief and feeling top mine ? If so why ?

It's not about respect. It's about biology and the very nature of the language we use. I'm not going to lie to myself, and him, and say that he is a woman.

YANBU I just try to ignore the virtue signalling SJW with too much time on their hands.

Why shouldn't we be able to tell someone's sex? That's going to make finding a partner that meets people's sexuality rather difficult.

It really is such utter virtue signalling bullshit isn't it?

Blahblah intersex blah blah clown fish blah blah unicorns blah blah nonsense.

It's never going to change the fact that you need two gametes to make babies. And the holder of one type oppresses the other type and always has.

I really pity the owners of the bigger type that have swallowed this utter crap, putting other owners of the bigger type more at risk by pretending the owners of the smaller type are just like them.