To think that lots of men think this way

[Flynnshine]

Recently a good friend of my partners has split from his wife of 15 years, they have two young children between 10 and 13.
The husband has decided he isn't happy and wants to end the relationship.

Last week he came over to our house in the evening and I left him and my husband chatting in the living room. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was only in the next room so could hear their conversation. Basically the husband has been planning this split for a while, 6 months before he announced he wanted to end things he sold their beautiful big house and they moved into their much smaller starter home which they had out on rent - they moved the kids out of their private school education and into a state school local to their new home.

They've always had a very comfortable life, beautiful house, nice cars and very fancy holidays a few times a year. They both had good jobs when they first met but when the children came along the wife stopped work and dedicated her life to them. They've done amazingly well at school, both top of their classes, sporty and do two sports for their local borough. They are polite and thoughtful and genuinely lovely children.

The conversation I overheard was the husband complaining that even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce. He's even planning on quitting his job and becoming self employed so he can fudge his earnings so his maintenance payments could be less. My husband was agreeing with him, I don't know if just to placate him or if that's really how he feels!

This man honestly thinks that because he has been working and paying a mortgage that his worth is so much more. He thinks he has enabled her to not work for over 10 years and that she has been having a jolly all that time. It's like he gives zero shits that he has two wonderful children that he has never had to lift a finger for and she has given her all to those children while he reaps the rewards of that.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

We’re talking about a couple where the dh earns enough singlehandedly to pay for a beautiful house, cars, holidays and private school education. So it’s not unreasonable to think that paying a nanny, or a child minder who is happy to be flexible and work into the evening, is a possibility.

Also many private schools have flexi boarding, or at least very good wrap around care. Plus holiday clubs.

And remember the kids here are 10 and 13 so we’re not talking many years ahead of needing childminding.

Bottom line is- few things are black and white. If the dh in this scenario genuinely is abusive, he’s genuinely stopped the wife getting a job and now he plans to hide finances- of course he’s a prick.

But there are equally many real life situations where it’s shades of grey rather than black and white... maybe the wife doesn’t actually want the pressure of paying mortgage, school fees, cars, food, electricity, gas.... maybe she’s been quite happy to have the easier day to day lifestyle. (And no, I’m not bashing SAHM because When you have tiny kids it’s blooming full on, but there is absolutely no way being a SAHM to a 10 and 13 year old who are at school all day is hard work.)

Anyway I still suspect this is a fake thread just to be goady. The OP has given away too much with her comments about how she views WOHP!

@Willow4987 thank you for reading all of my posts, I hope it puts my original into perspective a little.

I am going to talk to her. I've told my husband I want nothing further to do with this man and asked him outright if he really agrees. He says he doesn't and is considering letting the friendship fizzle out. He's not a 'cunt' like a previous poster suggested he is just passive and avoids confrontation at all costs.

This is a horrible situation and it just shows that he's never really been interested in his kids lives. He wasn't forced to impregnate her, if he really didn't want to be a father that was his responsibility. I'm sure he always wanted kids until he had them and then realised it's not all cuddles and kick arounds in the park and that actually keeping two small humans alive and happy can be hard work. I just hope I've found out all of this in enough time for her to do something to protect her and the children x

My sister's ex definitely thought like that. Luckily the courts don't.

@Hubanmao Yep my life is so dull and boring I have nothing better to do than to fabricate a whole story to be goady and rile up all the menstrual women on mumsnet!

Please go back and read all of my posts before you assume I have a poor opinion of working parents. I am one!

No not all men think like this. Only the selfish, misogynistic ones. I can't believe you DH sat there and agreed. My DH would have been outraged and would have made that clear.

Those people saying successful men don't have wives who are also successful.....what utter bullshit.

Both me and DH have very successful careers which we've continued to build while being parents. The key to this is both partners valuing each other as equals.

Equality is vital. The way the man spoke was out of order. However the courts are not awarding much spousal maintenance at the moment , women are expected to earn their own money. The flip side of this is 50:50 residency. If I was this man's wife, that's what I would be seeking.

My dad certainly did think like this. His resentment of mum built over many years. Interesting to see it described as buying a service on his terms, I think that's pretty accurate of his thinking.

Not just a Male thing.
I understand where he is coming from. .
But the devil is in the detail.

Some people have really stressful well paying jobs allowing the at home parent to have a relatively easy life.

I would resent giving up half my earnings in this position.

Small horse
Are you a stay at home parent?

If he didn't like the fact that he'd have to give her half of the assets then he shouldn't have got married and had kids.
She hasn't had an easy life shes had to look after the house, support him and look after the kids.
Good on you OP for going to tell her and not have him back in the house.

Hubanmao you accuse the OP of being goady, but you keep coming back to this thread saying the same thing. It's actually you who is being goady.

Op has explained several times that in this case the man WOULD NOT LET HIS WIFE WORK. So, just give it a rest eh?

She hasn't had an easy life shes had to look after the house, support him and look after the kids

Seriously? The children have been at school for years and it's not exactly hard to look after a house. It's an everyday thing for adults. You do realise that most people do all that and work as well.

She also said she doesn’t think WOHP raise their children- goady as fuck!

Agree TheBigBangRocks...

SAHP a 10 year old and 13 year old who are out at school all day. Beautiful house, holidays, school fees paid for, no money worries.

OR...

Doing the kind of work which funds the above lifestyle.

Hmmm... think I know which one is easier

Not being all, or even most, men I feel unqualified to speak on their behalf but I don't personally think like that

I'm giving up explaining myself now @Hubanmao is clearly not prepared to see that I'm simply asking genuine questions and just wants to use the word goady in every post!

Thanks for everyone's responses. I'm not a troll and nor was I trying to be goady.

@UserMe18 but both our salaries are higher than the cost of childcare, so there's a net loss by having one of us home. Similarly @masterandmargarita we have only joint accounts, and he tends to spend more than I do in any case, so he was better off than if he'd been paid purely childcare fees and we were strict on who pays for what. The difference was that as for OPs husband we had to be tighter on budgets - so I was working long hours with fewer luxuries.

My DH is great and appreciatea all of this and is back at work, so none of this is an issue for us anyway. But I can completely understand the resetbmebt of some higher earning partners (usually husbands) whose partners choose not to worl and then get half of everything.

The issue at hand is not whether or not this SAHM “deserves” half the assets, it is that in law they are half hers. Her husband is a cheating twat.

My DH would never have sat and just agreed through a conversation like that. Why on earth didn't your DH challenge him?

Change will not happen until men challenge other men about attitudes that reveal such callous indifference to children and other life responsibilities.

OP - ok, assuming you aren’t being goady (though your comments upthread about WOHP are pretty unpleasant.....)

I’m not sure how you suddenly know all the ins and outs of conversations between this couple, given that the husband is a good friend of your partner (this is how you describe him in the OP, no mention of you having a friendship with either this man or his wife.) therefore presumably you’re hearing a one sided version of events, through a 3rd party (your partner.)
If everything you recount is absolutely the truth, then it sounds like you’re partnered to a knob too. Unbelievable that he just sat there and didn’t challenge any of it

@Hubanmao I referred to him as my partners friend because they have been friends for years, I met him and his wife as a couple when I met my partner almost 10 years ago. We became close - the 4 of us. So I hear both sides. The wife's side, his side through him and my partner and have witnessed things myself over the last 10 years.

I find it strange that you can call my partner a knob for not challenging his friend when looking back at your previous posts you agree with him yourself!

I didn’t say I agree with him. I said the problem is that we’re only hearing one side, and without being physically there when this couple have had conversations about working /fair division of responsibilities then we can’t possibly know what’s going on.

Now that you’ve clarified that you both have known this couple well for years and are good friends I’m even more astounded that you and your partner have sat back and continued being being chummy knowing what’s going on.

@Stuckforthefourthtime this is why it's got to be a joint decision at the start. If the higher earner agrees to being the bread winner and supporting everyone, they can't just change their tune if they split and not expect to have to share assets. If they are not understanding of the ramifications of a one earning family they shouldn't agree to be in one. I know my DH would never go for me being at home, nor vice versa, we both see a lot of value in working, it is a joint decision we have both made. If one partner doesn't want to work and the other doesn't want to be the main earner this should be discussed from the offset, not years later on divorce, they should expect to have to divide the assets.

you are protected by being married.

I wish this were true but it's a common misconception. A good friend of mine has been left in a terrible situation after her Husband of many years suddenly left her for another woman. He was by far the higher earner and she was always the one who did the majority of the childcare but when he left he immediately stopped paying the mortgage on their family home, cancelled all the direct debits for bills and wouldn't speak to her. My friend had to go back to work full time, having previously worked very part time hours for many years as she was now on her own with two teenage children to support and a mortgage she couldn't afford. It wasn't enough though and she ended up getting into debt. He refused to take her phonecalls, respond to letters from her solicitor or engage in any kind of mediation. He has basically 'ghosted' his own wife and she cannot afford to take him to court.

I think quite a few men (and women who are the higher earners) probably do think like. St yes. And often as in my case it's the ones that when the marriage is happy espouse the opposite view. Peoples personalities change, not often for the better when money comes into play.