To think that lots of men think this way

[Flynnshine]

Recently a good friend of my partners has split from his wife of 15 years, they have two young children between 10 and 13.
The husband has decided he isn't happy and wants to end the relationship.

Last week he came over to our house in the evening and I left him and my husband chatting in the living room. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was only in the next room so could hear their conversation. Basically the husband has been planning this split for a while, 6 months before he announced he wanted to end things he sold their beautiful big house and they moved into their much smaller starter home which they had out on rent - they moved the kids out of their private school education and into a state school local to their new home.

They've always had a very comfortable life, beautiful house, nice cars and very fancy holidays a few times a year. They both had good jobs when they first met but when the children came along the wife stopped work and dedicated her life to them. They've done amazingly well at school, both top of their classes, sporty and do two sports for their local borough. They are polite and thoughtful and genuinely lovely children.

The conversation I overheard was the husband complaining that even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce. He's even planning on quitting his job and becoming self employed so he can fudge his earnings so his maintenance payments could be less. My husband was agreeing with him, I don't know if just to placate him or if that's really how he feels!

This man honestly thinks that because he has been working and paying a mortgage that his worth is so much more. He thinks he has enabled her to not work for over 10 years and that she has been having a jolly all that time. It's like he gives zero shits that he has two wonderful children that he has never had to lift a finger for and she has given her all to those children while he reaps the rewards of that.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

I’d be disgusted in your husband.

Either he agrees, in which case he’s an arsehole.

Or he doesn’t agree, in which case he’s shamefully weak. Still an arsehole. Lucky you.

As you’re part time, I suggest you tell him you want to see a solicitor and make a post nuptial agreement.

Let’s see how much he “didn’t agree just didn’t want to say” when you suggest you take 60% of your house equity because your pension and earnings got shagged by going part time.

He's on an FTC right but we've both decided that we love it here so we will probably end up staying for good. I don't think that rule would apply in the country that we've moved to (sorry for not mentioning the country, I'm not trying to be shady, I just hate revealing too much identifying information on the internet when I've said some quite personal things about my finances and my marriage)

To be honest I can't see myself ever wanting to move back to the UK, our lives here are so much better and the career I'm planning on going into once the baby is grown up would work much better over here. But I wouldn't want to close that door completely, you never know what the future would hold. I would hate to think I was actually "stuck" somewhere. Even though I love it here that thought of being stuck would probably make me start to long for the UK lol.

I guess I'll just have to see what happens. Who knows, Brexit could change all sorts of rules anyway in the longterm...

Yes you get tax credits to pay for childcare. But it limits the jobs you can do. There needs to be available childcare which usually means as a lone parent you can not work unsocial hours, unless you have family help.

And the only DPs I know who have partners who work as well and genuinely share housework, childcare, sorting out Drs appointments, etc etc, do not have high flying careers. Because if you both work, you both should split everything equally. That is very very rare.

I think tax credits will cover some childcare if a single parent.

We were caught that we couldnt afford childcare if i worked. Also most people hace a parent on the schoolrun in our area. I dont think i know any family where both parents are out til 6pm + everyday.

All this 'enables your career' stuff is a bit rubbish, unless that's what the man actually wanted.

My DH spent quite a bit of time as an sahp due to health issues, then challenges getting back to work, then didn't want to go back - until I put my foot down, because I hated being the only earner, desperately missed time at home with dcs, and had to accept minimal say in how my own home was run, as I wasn't the one doing it day to day.

I was also not particularly more 'enabled' than if I'd had nursery or a nanny and a cleaner. To then give up 50% of assets and let him have custody if we'd split would have seemed dramatically unfair to me too.

some people read these threads so they can take out their aggression on someone they don't know

Never a truer word spoken on AIBU!

@partinor it is not that rare, I know of numerous couples who both have successful careers (myself included in that) and yes it is 50/50 at home as it has to me, I can't vouch for all the couples I know of course, but I doubt some of the women I know would accept less than fair share at home.

Yes lots of men think like this.
I think the solution is for both parents to keep working, probably reduce their hours too to keep it even.
I'm still amazed how many professional women have to take time off work to look after sick children/relatives, even when their husband has a less skilled or less well paid job.

she has attempted to talk to him about going back to work a number of times, to both help financially and for her own sanity. He talked her out of it every time and made it impossible claiming he couldn't help cover school holidays and sickness etc. Really I don't see what choice she had but to be at home

And yet again, you're describing abuse. This is not normal behaviour.

Coercive control is a crime.

@Stuckforthefourthtime you were enabled as I assume he managed the childcare so all your salary came home rather than paying it to someone as they are your children too. Though of course it should be a joint decision.

UserMe I know it exists, in my home for a start. But I ma more cynical than you. I saw couples that I used to think shared all this stuff until I got to know them really well. Like one couple where the father seemed very active and hands on, but his wife said he left all the boring organisational stuff to her. Although I would love all couples do genuinely operate equally.

@partinor yes I suppose so, as I say I don't know what goes on behind their closed doors. I suppose I'm somewhat less cynical as myself and DH were raised in very balanced 50/50 homes, unusual perhaps for the nineties but we wouldn't accept less now. That's why I get so so frustrated when I hear about women taking on the lion's share while working because they're not martyrs, they're only encouraging their children to accept the same when they grow up.

Don't forget that just because the man earns a high salary, doesn't necessarily mean the woman can pay for childcare. He might already be hiding money, or be the one who controls it ie gives her a set allowance for 'housekeeping'. If a man is a sexist prick who wants his wife to be his servant, then he will put obstacle after obstacle in the way of her taking a job - and it still won't stop him declaring that he works to 'support' her, once he has decided to move on.

It is not up to the woman to pay for childcare out of her wage by herself either. That is basically saying it is her responsibility.

@ReanimatedSGB which is exactly what I think has happened in this case.

But women would prefer to see her as a lazy enabled SAHP and bash her rather than seeing that she's been treated unfairly by the man she loves.

Of course all men don't think like this. My husband doesn't, for starters.

^^

Course not.

Stuckfor - then maybe you should pay you dh for what he did to even things out and lessen your resentment

Like one couple where the father seemed very active and hands on, but his wife said he left all the boring organisational stuff to her. A

^

Yup. Standard issue.

It’s not essential to fit work around school runs though. It’s this attitude that keeps women- because it usually is the woman- either not working, or doing some menial job. It’s quite possible to pay a childminder, or other form or childcare and both continue to work, and raise wonderful children.

Yes of course I should have said around childcare. As we ourselves have done! Still though they all close at 6 so the point still stands if he works all hours!

Exactly. Childcare works for ordinary not very well paid jobs. It does not work for high flying jobs unless you hire a proper nanny. And that is not cheap.

My friend is a Nanny in London. Her salary is over 34k! She works 8am-8pm 5 days a week. 34k!!!

Not all but there are plenty that do. My best friends dh tried to do this to her. He convinced her that his business was doing really badly and they put their fabulous big house up for sale. His plan was to buy two small houses with the proceeds, one for her and one for the other woman. She found out and took the house off the market. The idea was she would only get half of the small house once they divorced. He had a plan to hide the ownership of the second house. Once men leave for an ow many of them seem to lose all sense of decency.

I think the men who think like this are cunts the ones who have no clue about what it takes to raise children. Providing a roof over their heads and food on the table is VERY important but they seem to think that everything else falls into place naturally after this. The reality is that there's a woman behind all this with a hundred different hats on keeping it all going smoothly. They've got no idea.

@flynnshine to be honest I haven’t read the full thread from other posters but I have read all of your posts

I don’t know whether all men think like this (I certainly hope not) but I do feel for this poor woman

She’s going to be blindsided by this - husband leaving, single parent, forced into a situation not of her making and all the while he’s planning to financially undervalue her - even where his own children are concerned which is absolutely deplorable!

If I was in your shoes I think I would have to have a quiet word and tip her off so she knew what he was doing and get her solicitors on the case. To even think about paying less maintenance for his children isn’t acceptable! She’s been out of work for several years so her earning potential will have been reduced- how does he expect her to support the children without his fair help!

I should add that 5 years ago my ex hid a retail property that he had bought for almost a whole year (until I found out) because he thought we might soon divorce. In the event we got divorced last year instead. I do wonder what else he might have hidden. The courts ordered a search on his name in the Land Registry, but there are many ways of hiding things.