To think that lots of men think this way

[Flynnshine]

Recently a good friend of my partners has split from his wife of 15 years, they have two young children between 10 and 13.
The husband has decided he isn't happy and wants to end the relationship.

Last week he came over to our house in the evening and I left him and my husband chatting in the living room. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was only in the next room so could hear their conversation. Basically the husband has been planning this split for a while, 6 months before he announced he wanted to end things he sold their beautiful big house and they moved into their much smaller starter home which they had out on rent - they moved the kids out of their private school education and into a state school local to their new home.

They've always had a very comfortable life, beautiful house, nice cars and very fancy holidays a few times a year. They both had good jobs when they first met but when the children came along the wife stopped work and dedicated her life to them. They've done amazingly well at school, both top of their classes, sporty and do two sports for their local borough. They are polite and thoughtful and genuinely lovely children.

The conversation I overheard was the husband complaining that even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce. He's even planning on quitting his job and becoming self employed so he can fudge his earnings so his maintenance payments could be less. My husband was agreeing with him, I don't know if just to placate him or if that's really how he feels!

This man honestly thinks that because he has been working and paying a mortgage that his worth is so much more. He thinks he has enabled her to not work for over 10 years and that she has been having a jolly all that time. It's like he gives zero shits that he has two wonderful children that he has never had to lift a finger for and she has given her all to those children while he reaps the rewards of that.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

No. Not every man thinks like that; curiously though I think that every MARRIED man I've known has thought like that to a greater or lesser degree...

I think a lot of men do think like this.

Lots of threads on here are poor men’s going out to work you should do everything if you don’t work.

I do know in rl several men who aren’t like this. FIL left MIL but he treated her and his DC very fairly in the split ensuring nobody suffered financially.

I think however you can tell if the bloke you’re with has this attitude as he’s probably abusive in the relationship too. Preventing partner from financial independence, refusing to do any house/child(ren) related work as it’s ‘not his job’, penny pinching and wants to know where every last penny goes, makes autonomous financial decisions with complete disregard to how it affects partner and dc etc.

I’d bet the wife knows she’s in for a very contentious divorce.

Hope she had a shit hot lawyer and has a wonderful life rid of this arsehole.

Really I don't see what choice she had but to be at home

So she didn't want to pay for childcare is the crux of it or in case of sickness, That was her choice. How does she think couples or single people not married to high earners manage in the real world.

As for the comment he wouldn't have had children if she wasn't at home, of course he would. You can parent and work, it's not one or the other.

The not cleaning or doing shopping etc surely is just down to the fact that he has to be at work all day where as she was at home with no children or job. Did she really expect him to do half of the house stuff as well as work whilst she did even less. Running a house is done by millions who work, it's hardly rocket science or hard.

If this was a woman and he had been home for years not financially contributing he would be ripped to shreds for being lazy and expecting his lifestyle funded.

Unfortunately witnessing my parents divorce, I can only agree.

Dad paid the mortgage every month, and whilst Mum was working too she paid for all the shopping and bills (nevermind doing all the cooking, cleaning etc).

He was completely of the opinion that she shouldn't be entitled to anything from the sale of the house.

He was wrong.

Obviously it's not ALL men, but I do think it's a mentality of - I paid for this, so why should you have it. No thought to the other financial input, or indeed time, loss of career etc that spouse has contributed,

They do. My husband wasn't happy for me to work part time while he worked full time. I have always worked full time as he wasn't happy for the financial pressure on him.

Are you also a SAHM OP? Might be time to have a chat with your husband if so.

It’s a bit weird to say he wouldn’t have had wonderful children if his wife had had a job. What makes you say that? I know plenty of couples who both work and have wonderful children, include some who play sports or have other hobbies.

Nope - my husband gave his wife everything when he left, £200k of assets and took on £40k of marital debt in the hope his ex wife would be more reasonable about him seeing their children. No affair or anything - he left because he couldn’t live with her being controlling, she was angry because of the shame of a broken marriage/loss of control.

If my DH had been passive in a conversation like that we would be having a serious talk. I expect him to speak up when someone is doing something wrong.

Divorce can be a messy business but whilst I can kind of see that some people might try to get away with sharing as little of the money with their ex-spouse as possible I cannot fathom the kind of vindictive behaviour which also makes their own children suffer.

I think there is a tendency to think like this when they are looking for 'scapegoat'. Its very sad.

I don't live in the UK but a local family, living on a lottery size paternal inheritance both gave up their jobs to travel in luxury and kick their heels up. Two kids and a mansion size house later, he has now met someone 17 years younger and is binning the wife off. He is moaning to the Nanny (my source) that he never asked his wife of five years to give up her job and travel and she wanted kids, not me. He has also hidden an expenisve sports car with another neighbour, told the wife it was stolen and the insurance wouldn't pay out. He wanted out but he still needs to demonise the wife ...... funny thing new woman has given up her job, as he flies over back and forth to the UK as they can't bear to be parted.

Maybe I should have thought about my heading a bit more... not ALL men but a lot of them, deep down.

I don't know, it just shocked me to hear it. She has no worth because she put her career on hold to bring up their children. Children that they both wanted that they both agreed on. She saw no point in having children to pay someone else to bring them up while she worked. They are their children, she wanted them to be influenced by them (her!) not someone they are paying!

I've spoken to my husband, apparently he doesn't really agree with him but didn't want to voice his opinion. I told him if he really does agree with him then we need to re-think our lives and that I'll be upping my part time hours that fit in with the school and going back part time and he can share the responsibility of school runs and holidays with me and I'll pay half of the mortgage!

Just getting my ducks in a row!!

My xh thought like this. I wanted to go back to work and it was too inconvenient for him, so on top of this type of man that you describe (above) there is another type who wants the convenience of a wife at home but who will not acknowledge the sacrifice or perhaps risk that this is for a woman. My x was that type. I left and he was astounded. I had everything I could have wanted apparently! Not respect though.

If my husband was having indepth discussions with a friend who'd just left his wife for a younger woman, I'd say to him that I'm brave enough to start again if I have to but that I wouldn't be able for 1% more than 50% of the childcare/responsibilities. I'd say I like this life but I don't need it I won't cling to it. I could if I needed to build a new life. IF you think your husband is sitting around weighing up whether or not he should start chasing younger women around the office.

totally agree User

Did your husband just sit there and listen? My husband would have showed him the door.

Sounds like you're on the ball OP! I think some husbands (the sexist ones) do lose respect for their wives if they're financially dependent on them. The same types like to ''provide'' to begin with. It's an irony. They like to provide for you until you're trapped and need them in the team that they co-created.
But My x got the shock of his life when I walked away ostensibly towards a lifetime of poverty to build my own life rather than tolerate another day's lack of respect. He would never admit it in a million years but for all his cash I'm a stronger person with more self worth and he does grudgingly respect me NOW.

I was a SAHD for 16 years. For some reason at 'divorce time' being a SAHP counted for nothing in EX's eyes. I worked PT around parenting as well.

OP... are you the wife and have changed some details in the OP? Because your more recent post reveals an awful lot of info about personal conversations between the husband and wife....

To be frank, unless you’re actually there, you (or indeed any of us) know the real truth and detail of what’s gone on in conversations. People tend to put their own spin on things when relating to a 3 rd party.

If it’s honestly the whole truth that the wife was desperate to work but the husband tried to stop her then frankly that’s awful. But I’m not sure whether it’s really this black and white because you then go on to quote childcare costs as a reason for not working....

Families come in all shapes and sizes. Of course there are successful working men who also have successful working wives!

Of the senior men that I’ve come across in my working life, some have wives who are their equal, professionally. Some have wives who work part time in much lower status roles. Some have SAH wives. There has been absolutely no pattern of the ones with wives who work less, being more successful. Their success is down to individual merit.

Once again, the fundamental issue here is lack of communication. Feelings and circumstances change. Positions need to be renegotiated throughout a marriage.
FWIW when our children were 4 and under, my dh was very happy for me to work only 3 days a week (by dc3, childcare wiped out the inmediate financial gain but I kept working for the long term advantages.) when our youngest started school we talked, and agreed I would return to full time work. And to be honest now our children are in their 20s and left home I would feel it was a complete piss take if I’d remained working just 3 days all these years while expecting dh to work full time.

It goes back to communication every time. What exactly were the discussions that took place? Were all the decisions (to have children in the first place, who would work, how the domestic chores would be carved up) mutually agreed? Or was one partner more invested in them than the other?

To be fair, there are certain types of careers that aren't compatible with children because of very long hours and/or lots of travel. Men who do these careers are reliant on a wife who is willing to do everything child related, otherwise they wouldn't have children.

Yes, the wife can work full time also, but her career will have to be local based and as a consequence will often be lower paid.

And doing absolutely everything for children while working full time is a hard slog. Yes, single parents do it because they have to, but I wouldn't blame a woman who can't face it if she doesn't have a financial imperitive to do so.

The irritating thing is, once the children are born, the aforementioned long hours husband can walk out, contribute minimal maintenance and the mother has no choice but to continue to facilitate his career by providing childcare at a cut price cost.

With money comes power. Sad but true. I believe that I wouldn't abuse it. But who knows.

You have to make sure that the responsibilities are split so that the opportunity to earn is equal.

That's what I've been trying to communicate to my DC.

I think marriage as a partnership goes out the window. Staying at home to look after your children is just not valued in our society.
Of course it's possible to have two people with full time jobs in a family but you have to outsource the childcare - you can't do both. If you've decided as a partnership that one parent should have the childcare role then that role should have equal value. You're a team.
I have stayed at home and worked, and I found being a stay at home mum much harder work than 'paid' work.
It's hard to find work that fits around childcare and often hard to go back to work you've done before if you've taken a break to raise kids. Why should the parent in the carer role then go on to be penalised further if the marriage breaks down.
That's a massive red flag from your husband, and I would be having a word with the wife too - don't stand back and let her get shafted.

This is why I say it isn't a marriage certificate that protects women but financial independence. I'd never give up my earning potential. Ever.

there is another type who wants the convenience of a wife at home but who will not acknowledge the sacrifice or perhaps risk that this is for a woman
this

People are going to live longer. Work longer. This will put even more pressure on couples making marriages work for 20,30,40,50 years.

I think men think like this. I think women think like this. I think parts of society perpetuate this view.
Until society pivots to both parents sharing responsibilities in the home equally and combining that with both continuing to work outside of the home, then I think this will continue to be a problem.

I don’t think money is the issue. But I do think it’s wrong that one parent does the bulk of the ‘parenting’ whilst the other does the ‘money’. I think it should all be more equitable, then in the event of divorce, both money and shared residency also becomes more equitable.

In this situation I wouldn’t care a jot about the money, I would worry more that primary residency of the Dc would go to the primary carer and I would move into a situation where I see my own children EOW and once a week. That is the part that would be painful for me.

Says a lot about where this mans priorities lie. Sad really.

If either sex are the higher earner, it makes more sense to not get married unless there is a legal pre nup in place. That way the other person knows where they stand and may make different decisions with their life rather than expect everything.

And no I am not the wife I speak of. If it were me I would say so.

Of course I don't know the whole ins and outs but I'm in a position where I DO hear both sides, we are close friends and I still see them both despite their break up.

She saw no point in having children to pay someone else to bring them up while she worked

WOHP also "bring up" their children

I've spoken to my husband, apparently he doesn't really agree with him but didn't want to voice his opinion

How utterly spineless of him.