To think that lots of men think this way

[Flynnshine]

Recently a good friend of my partners has split from his wife of 15 years, they have two young children between 10 and 13.
The husband has decided he isn't happy and wants to end the relationship.

Last week he came over to our house in the evening and I left him and my husband chatting in the living room. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was only in the next room so could hear their conversation. Basically the husband has been planning this split for a while, 6 months before he announced he wanted to end things he sold their beautiful big house and they moved into their much smaller starter home which they had out on rent - they moved the kids out of their private school education and into a state school local to their new home.

They've always had a very comfortable life, beautiful house, nice cars and very fancy holidays a few times a year. They both had good jobs when they first met but when the children came along the wife stopped work and dedicated her life to them. They've done amazingly well at school, both top of their classes, sporty and do two sports for their local borough. They are polite and thoughtful and genuinely lovely children.

The conversation I overheard was the husband complaining that even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce. He's even planning on quitting his job and becoming self employed so he can fudge his earnings so his maintenance payments could be less. My husband was agreeing with him, I don't know if just to placate him or if that's really how he feels!

This man honestly thinks that because he has been working and paying a mortgage that his worth is so much more. He thinks he has enabled her to not work for over 10 years and that she has been having a jolly all that time. It's like he gives zero shits that he has two wonderful children that he has never had to lift a finger for and she has given her all to those children while he reaps the rewards of that.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

You keep twisting the facts. She was not doing it so he could go out to work. She was doing it because she wanted to and him going out to work made that possible.

That may be so but the fact she did it meant it facilitated his career and boosted his earning potential. I wonder how much money he’d have to squirrel away if he’d had to fit his working hours around 50% of school run times. Maybe now he’ll find out.!

Careful your husband doesn't do the same if you ever divorce.

Pregnantsea - you need to read up on the Hague Convention - it will depend rather a lot how much it applies to you on whether or not your husband is on a fixed term contract overseas that will result in you both returning to the UK.
However, if you're overseas with him for some time with your child, such that the country you are in becomes your child's "regular domicile", and your husband then decides he wants to stay on but you want to return to the UK, it may prove difficult for you to do so because of the Hague Convention (also depending on whether or not the country you are in is a signatory to it).

So read up on it - forewarned is forearmed.

I feel so bad for this woman and her kids. I wish more people discussed the various legalities around marriage/divorce or the risks involved with having a sole earner/SAHP set-up in a family. It would perhaps allow them to make legal or financial arrangements to prevent these situations.

But it's not necessarily men who think this way, but sole earners. There's plenty of people who behave appallingly in divorces, irrespective of gender.

But a lot of couples are both able to build careers at the same time and a lot of couples have a SAHP while the other isn’t able to progress theirs at all.

It’s a frequent refrain on here that one parent SAH automatically enables the other to flourish in their work and it wouldn’t have otherwise been possible. Yet many couples manage it. As do lone parents who are juggling it all.

The key to it for anyone (male or female) who wants to be or ends up as a SAHP, is education. Get some type of degree or certification. Even if you then choose to be a SAHP, if the shit hits the fan you will be able to support yourself (and your DC). And that 'shit' isn't always divorce. It could be a spouse's redundancy, their disability, or even their death. We all need to be prepared to be the breadwinner, even if we're never called to do it.

My cousin was a dental hygienist. Married, had two kids, became a SAHM. When their youngest was a toddler, her 'd'H decided to fuck off with a younger model. Cousin had kept up her certification and was able to find well paying part time work which combined with child support enabled her to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. Her parents (and mine) had drilled into us that a woman always needs a skill, even if she doesn't have to use it after she marries.

Yes, people (male and female) generally become shits when it comes to money. I've seen people I thought would be fair and reasonable turn into people who would make Scrooge proud. That's why it's up to us to protect ourselves.

My ex thinks like this, and lord knows what he told his family, as his nephew said “it’s kind of unfair that your Dad did all the work and your Mum got the house” . Which isn’t the full story by a long stretch, but ex is no doubt presenting a poor me side of the story, and the settlement was fair.

During our relationship I was a SAHM to 3 kids for 14 years, and worked for 8. I contributed (massively in the end) to the marital asset pot with an inheritance as well.

No doubt ex (who is due another cash payment from me this year - the final part of the settlement) has not told his family any of this. He has gone from being a verbally and emotionally abusive bully to the archetypal “victim”. His family have no contact with me and one of his sisters rang to speak to my son and ignored me completely (I answered the phone). No doubt my name is no doubt mud with his relatives now, but I am just glad I am out of the toxic dynamics between some members of his family. Highly critical, blaming and bad tempered people.

'Really I don't see what choice she had'

What do you think single parents do? I have three boys and until very recently worked full time all by myself without any help.... her children aren't babies and she could have said 'I am going back to work'.

People manage..... amazingly.

now not no

Not all of them. But who's idea was it for the mother to stay at home? If it was his and he wanted a mother with benefits all that time, then that's definitely unfair.

That's why I always choose to work and pay my way, even though staying at home sometime seems like a great idea (can't afford to anyway) and always split the chores/DIY. A lot of guys will make sure they are in control of certain things in the home, just so they can do things like this when it doesn't work out.

One thing that stands out is the age of the kids. She probably could have worked, even if only part-time, so maybe he resented her for that? It sounds very petty of him though, as they were obviously doing well with their big house and kids in private school, so surely there is enough money to split halfway and keep a roof over both of their heads? He's not really thinking of the kids here is he?

A lot of people, unfortunately, still think that women exist for the benefit of men and children, and are not people in their own right. This is one of the reasons why so many (waged) jobs which are predominantly seen as women's jobs are so badly paid - women should do this sort of thing out of love and duty, not for money.

So yes, there are lots of men like this prick, who don't actually want their wives to 'work' (ie be employed or earn money) because that would inconvenience them: the woman's job is to be on domestic/childcare duty 24/7 in exchange for bed, board and pocket money. Yet once they decide they want to trade that woman in for a new model, it becomes 'She doesn't do anything, why should I pay for her when I don't want her any more'.

And, as PP have mentioned, just because DC are at school doesn't mean the woman can get a job and keep it/ DC get ill, there are inset days and training days, and the school's closed because of snow, and there are early finishes and school trips etc. If the man still won't lift a finger or have his Very Important Work interrupted, what can the woman do?

My brother was buying a house last year and viewed one where an estate agent explained 40k would be needed up front as the sale price would be hidden from the wife. Mortgage broker advised him to go ahead if he wanted a spell in jail.

‘That may be so but the fact she did it meant it facilitated his career and boosted his earning potential. I wonder how much money he’d have to squirrel away if he’d had to fit his working hours around 50% of school run times. Maybe now he’ll find out.!’

It’s not essential to fit work around school runs though. It’s this attitude that keeps women- because it usually is the woman- either not working, or doing some menial job. It’s quite possible to pay a childminder, or other form or childcare and both continue to work, and raise wonderful children.

The OPs view about working parents was very revealing

@TooTrueToBeGood you're twisting my words! Of course she enabled him to work. She enabled him to get up the morning and carry on as he always did in his role, climb the career ladder but still have a family, a family he wanted and was not bullied into. If she hadn't have been at home he would have had to either pay towards childcare or take on some of the responsibility himself. Neither of which he wanted which is WHY THEY agreed for her to be at home.
Now, because he's leaving her (and I do suspect he's found someone else) the fact that she hasn't worked is being used as a stick to beat her with, despite it working pretty fucking well for the last decade. His job is his passion and he is very fortunate that his passion in life pays a lot of money. He would be in that career whether he was married or not, he's just very fortunate that he's been able to do so as well as having two children and someone to wash his pants for him!

One of the satisfying things about my divorce was being backed by law. All that crap about things mostly belonging to ex could not withstand the force of the law.

According to my female solicitor was a “dog” and my females Jewish barrister a “big nose”. I can’t tell you what pleasure and relief it gave me to have these two clever, wise and powerful women stand up for me.

According to ex I mean - he called my solicitor a dog and barrister a big nose. He has racist tendencies.

Some pricks are men =/= All men are pricks

Some pricks are women =/= All women are pricks

My mind still boggles at the number of women who think it's okay to force a man to have a child against his will, but it doesn't mean I assume all women are like that.

I hope your DH is prepared to give evidence of what the husband said to him at the divorce. That would reveal how he really thinks.

Of course, you can also give evidence. Courts take a very dim view of this sort of behaviour. It will not go well for him.

I don't it's just men who think this selfishly. Too many people think the rest of us owes them.

Quite frankly I can't see why she expected him to sacrifice his career to cover school holidays. If there life style was that high there is plenty of money for holiday clubs or paid help at home. Sounds like she was making excuses.
He sounds a prick but she sounds like a couple of women I know. Can't stand their wealthy husbands but live a lie because they love the lifestyle they find. Neither works and can come up with a whole list of excuses why they couldn't possibly. One will even cite childcare despite the kids being at boarding school.

you're twisting my words!

I'm not. You're twisting them yourself and making up shit to suit your own agenda.

@Spudsandspanners In previous posts I have said that she discussed with him going back to work. He always talked her out of it.

This is a genuine question here; not aimed at being rude or offensive but how do single parents with multiple children work full time if they have absolutely no help? I mean how do you cover all of the hours the children are not in school without any help? If you're on a huge salary then yes I can imagine you can pay a childminder for school runs. But what about someone who earns an average wage and has multiple children surely childcare would swallow a huge amount of that?

Of course a SAHP means the other parent can build their career. In this case we are talking about a high flying career with long working hours and maybe overnight travel. In these cases you need a paid nanny and housekeeper/cleaner if you are a lone parent.

I don't know if all men think that way, but my DP said something revealing the other day. We were discussing the future, retirement etc, and he said "I'll have to keep working until I drop to keep a roof over our heads"
Erm, DP? who do you think pays all the utilities, tv licence, insurance etc, because I work too???
We need to have a talk. As does the OP with the DW of her H's friend.

@Flynnshine if you have no family/outside support you pay for childcare? If you don't have a large salary childcare fees are supplemented through TC/UC. I know plenty of women who do it.

@TooTrueToBeGood I don't have an agenda! I'm genuinely interested in peoples opinions here. It's not something I've had to ever think about before. The choices I have made have been what I think is best for my family at that point in time.
Perhaps you should go back and read all of my previous posts before you bash me. I have no agenda here.

Honestly I think some people read these threads so they can take out their aggression on someone they don't know.

I asked a question. Seems I have my answer. No, not all men. But most of them unless you have always contributed 50% financially!